beltramipaolo
Joined: 14-Jan-2016
Posts: 3
Posted: 28-Aug-2016, 15:48
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Posted: 28-Aug-2016, 15:48
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I have two coins from Madagascar both facial value 1 Ariary but with inverted position between number 1 and Ariary. "see picture" The second side is the same for booth coins dated 2004.
One coins is not reported on Krause catalog, I would be grateful if someone could give me an explanation
Best Regards
Paolo Beltrami from Italy, Reggio Emilia
Oklahoman
Numista team
Joined: 20-Dec-2015
Posts: 2957
Posted: 28-Aug-2016, 17:55
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Posted: 28-Aug-2016, 17:55
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That is cool...
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ALLRED1950
Joined: 2-Jul-2012
Posts: 4670
Posted: 28-Aug-2016, 20:22
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Posted: 28-Aug-2016, 20:22
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That is odd.
It is, what it is, or is it.
Oklahoman
Numista team
Joined: 20-Dec-2015
Posts: 2957
Posted: 28-Aug-2016, 20:29
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Posted: 28-Aug-2016, 20:29
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Its a variation on a theme you see in both banknotes and coins. Mauritius had banknotes with different local languages in the prime position on the banknote...Egypt has coin types with the western and the AH dates switching position ... the oddest thing is that this hasnt been discovered until now.
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Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 3784
Posted: 29-Aug-2016, 16:12
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Posted: 29-Aug-2016, 16:12
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Nice find, and no mentioning in Krause about this. I have to check my coins from Madagascar too.
Monnaiemalagass
Joined: 20-Nov-2014
Posts: 741
Posted: 4-Sep-2016, 13:39
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Posted: 4-Sep-2016, 13:39
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hello
i have 30 coins:
17 "Ariary 1"
13 "1 Ariary"
my explanation (in french)
https://fr.numista.com/forum/topic52878.html
jérémy
cherche billets malgaches avec lettre Z dans le numéro de série
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 3784
Posted: 5-Sep-2016, 15:02
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Posted: 5-Sep-2016, 15:02
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Very logical explanation.
I don't know if this is a variety or a new type (in my opinion I would call it a new type, or at least a new subtype) but in any case there should be a new year line for it (in case of variety) or a new coin sheet. Our member Monnaiemalagass already made a change request so let's hope it will be accepted soon.
Strange it's not yet in Krause because both differences already existed in 2004. Of course, that is a problem. We can't create new KM# numbers on our own. If Numista decides to call it a new type and not a variety, it has to have the same KM# number until it appears in Krause. So it might be better to just create a new year line for it in the existing coin sheet in stead of creating a new coin sheet.
Oklahoman
Numista team
Joined: 20-Dec-2015
Posts: 2957
Posted: 5-Sep-2016, 15:09
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Posted: 5-Sep-2016, 15:09
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I would think a variety would be more of a font difference. This is a completely different placement of wording. You can email Tom Micheal at Krause and get a new KM number. But if Krause sticks to its pattern, then they might just call it KM#XX.1 and KM#XX.2 thats what they fid for all the Isle of Man coins that had triskelion in the legends and a type that had no triskelion.
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Monnaiemalagass
Joined: 20-Nov-2014
Posts: 741
Posted: 5-Sep-2016, 16:18
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Posted: 5-Sep-2016, 16:18
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sorry for my English
for me it is a new type.
I think this new type was struck well after 2004, and as much coin Malagasy, the same year remains on the coin to several years of mint
jérémy
cherche billets malgaches avec lettre Z dans le numéro de série
Monnaiemalagass
Joined: 20-Nov-2014
Posts: 741
Posted: 5-Sep-2016, 16:45
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Posted: 5-Sep-2016, 16:45
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type2 is the rectification of type 1, and "Authorities" probably have not seen the error immediately because type 1 is not uncommon, so it was probably minted for some years before the type2.
which is why many of us have seen nothing
sorry , i use a translator
jérémy
cherche billets malgaches avec lettre Z dans le numéro de série
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 3784
Posted: 5-Sep-2016, 23:51
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Posted: 5-Sep-2016, 23:51
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No problem Jérémy, your English is perfectly understandable.
In my opinion it's also a new type, but it's a bit more difficult to make a coin sheet for it because we don't have a new KM# number for it. So we have to create a new coin sheet without a KM# number until the type 2 also appears in Krause to see what KM# number they will give, a totally new one or a subtype number.
Monnaiemalagass
Joined: 20-Nov-2014
Posts: 741
Posted: 6-Sep-2016, 15:37
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Posted: 6-Sep-2016, 15:37
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yes it's like 50 ariary 2005, normally this is a new type, though it is noted as a subtype of KM25. 20ariary same for 1994 and 1999. The motto had changed. even if it is written in small, this change is due to a change in Republic of Madagascar. Currently, the 4th republic Madagscar, even perhaps a new national motto in a new coins?
look at KM 756 and 820 for France. no difference engraving, yet there well there 2 referance. because there was a new republic (and an empire between the 2nd and 3rd Republic)
in the "world coins" there often has "two weights, two measures" (French expression "deux poids, deux mesures)
I mean that the reference policy, for "WordlCoins", is not always the same.
jérémy
cherche billets malgaches avec lettre Z dans le numéro de série
Shadoko
Joined: 28-Jun-2015
Posts: 495
Posted: 7-Sep-2016, 18:40
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Posted: 7-Sep-2016, 18:40
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As a referee, I am 100 % in line with the creation of a new type (not a modification of the existing one).
No problem if both coins have the same KM #; the Numista database doesn't impose uniqueness constraints on this field.
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 3784
Posted: 7-Sep-2016, 19:12
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Posted: 7-Sep-2016, 19:12
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I can easily live with the creation of a new type in stead of a modification of the existing one. But I think to avoid future mistakes it's more sensible to not giving it a KM# number yet, just like every other new type that isn't in Krause yet. A coin page without a KM# number stands out much more so it will be sooner corrected once there is KM# number. A coin page with a KM# number doesn't stand out and the chance the KM# number won't be corrected is much bigger with possible mistakes as a result.
beltramipaolo
Joined: 14-Jan-2016
Posts: 3
Posted: 8-Sep-2016, 10:22
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Posted: 8-Sep-2016, 10:22
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Thanks to all for the many responses received.
As shown by jérémy it is a common currency, but I do not understand why the variant is not shown on the krause book !
Paolo Beltrami
Monnaiemalagass
Joined: 20-Nov-2014
Posts: 741
Posted: 8-Sep-2016, 17:39
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Posted: 8-Sep-2016, 17:39
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there are varieties as big as a house, and we are not always able to see them.
cherche billets malgaches avec lettre Z dans le numéro de série
Jarcek
Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 12183
Posted: 9-Sep-2016, 08:42
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Posted: 9-Sep-2016, 08:42
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Quote: "Shadoko"As a referee, I am 100 % in line with the creation of a new type (not a modification of the existing one).
No problem if both coins have the same KM #; the Numista database doesn't impose uniqueness constraints on this field.
There is minimal problem with having two coins the sam KM. They will just both show up in the search. We have many sinilar cases in the catalogue already.
Catalogue administrator
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 3784
Posted: 9-Sep-2016, 11:39
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Posted: 9-Sep-2016, 11:39
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Quote: "Jarcek"There is minimal problem with having two coins the same KM. They will just both show up in the search. We have many similar cases in the catalog already.
That's why I suggested to create a new coin sheet without a KM# number, just like for every new type that isn't in Krause yet. And then correct it as soon as the type shows up in a new edition of Krause.
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