Bill1970
Joined: 23-May-2015
Posts: 54
Posted: 15-Sep-2020, 04:51
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Posted: 15-Sep-2020, 04:51
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Hello Numista community,
I recently purchased this 1637 One Croat coin from the Spanish States Principality of Catalonia. I won it from eBay on September 10th. NGC lists this coin as a "Top Pop" piece.
When adding this coin to my Numista collection, it lists 1637 twice (on two lines) with two different catalog numbers of Cal#978 and Cal#979.
Can someone be so kind as to educate me on what the difference is between the two Cal numbers?
I'm adding photos to assist in identifying the proper Cal number.
Thank you in advance!
Bill
harryg
Joined: 26-Mar-2018
Posts: 2794
Posted: 15-Sep-2020, 11:54
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Edited: 15-Sep-2020, 12:02
Posted: 15-Sep-2020, 11:54
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Edited: 15-Sep-2020, 12:02
I cant blow up your photo so I cant inspect your variety but I suspect the difference in the way the legend either says :
PHILIPPVS or
PHILIPP9
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces47937.html
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 3784
Posted: 15-Sep-2020, 12:23
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Posted: 15-Sep-2020, 12:23
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It must be something else because both 1637 lines say KM# 23.2 which is the PHILIPP9 variety:
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 3784
Posted: 15-Sep-2020, 12:56
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Edited: 15-Sep-2020, 13:05
Posted: 15-Sep-2020, 12:56
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Edited: 15-Sep-2020, 13:05
I think there is a mistake in our catalog. The KM# 23 for Catalonia is a different coin:
According to Krause, your coin is not from Catalonia but from Barcelona. And then you have the explanation for the two 1637 lines: the second line is with the date on both sides:
Your pictures are way to small but as far as I can see there is no date on the obverse, so I guess yours is Cal # 978.
I've wanted to make a change request for the mistake (Catalonia/Barcelona) and let the referee decide whether Krause is wrong or Numista is wrong but there isn't a Barcelona section on Numista (except the medieval County of Barcelona. No idea yet where all the Barcelona coins are placed in our catalog, probably all under Catalonia. Hopefully the Spanish referee reads this post and can shed a light on this subject.
harryg
Joined: 26-Mar-2018
Posts: 2794
Posted: 15-Sep-2020, 12:59
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Posted: 15-Sep-2020, 12:59
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Perhaps the referee for Catalonia can tell us what the difference is. I don't know why Numista lists subsets and then does not precisely explain the logic behind listing them.
Bill1970
Joined: 23-May-2015
Posts: 54
Posted: 16-Sep-2020, 01:05
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Posted: 16-Sep-2020, 01:05
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From what I can fathom, part of the confusion is that Barcelona, in the 1600s, was a city within the Principality of Catalonia, however, Barcelona was minting their own coinage.
For the moment, and the fact that my coin is listed under the Principality of Catalonia, I'll keep it where it is until such time as Numista is changed/updated to reflect the differences in the Spanish States.
In the past, I've submitted requests to update the Numista website but I'm not sure where to even begin to offer corrections on this one.
PetrusAscanus
Joined: 22-Nov-2014
Posts: 6304
Posted: 16-Sep-2020, 11:58
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Posted: 16-Sep-2020, 11:58
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please add some space left and right of the pictures
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
Bill1970
Joined: 23-May-2015
Posts: 54
Posted: 16-Sep-2020, 13:56
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Posted: 16-Sep-2020, 13:56
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Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 3784
Posted: 16-Sep-2020, 21:17
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Posted: 16-Sep-2020, 21:17
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Quote: "Bill1970"From what I can fathom, part of the confusion is that Barcelona, in the 1600s, was a city within the Principality of Catalonia, however, Barcelona was minting their own coinage.
When Barcelona was minting their own coinage Barcelona deserves to be in our catalog as new issuer under "Barcelona, City of". I've sent a message to the referee (in case he didn't read this thread) to hear his opinion about this subject. At the same time I'll ask him about which Cal# you have, but since your coin only has the date on the reverse, I still guess yours is Cal # 978.
Your new pictures are much much better but can you also take a picture of what's written on the slab?
Bill1970
Joined: 23-May-2015
Posts: 54
Posted: 17-Sep-2020, 01:34
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Posted: 17-Sep-2020, 01:34
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Hi Essor Prof...
Here's a photo of the label. Seems pretty straight forward but maybe it'll help in the creation of a "Barcelona, City of" category for Numista.
zegeri
Joined: 29-Oct-2011
Posts: 1508
Posted: 17-Sep-2020, 13:53
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Posted: 17-Sep-2020, 13:53
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I have added a comment to year 1637 Cal#979 about it has the date in the legend of both sides. Also added a image of the portrait side of this variant.
These coins were minted in Barcelona to be used in all Principality of Catalonia.
Referee for Spain, Iberia (ancient), Suebi Kingdom and Visigothic Kingdom
PetrusAscanus
Joined: 22-Nov-2014
Posts: 6304
Posted: 17-Sep-2020, 14:16
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Posted: 17-Sep-2020, 14:16
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Quote: "Bill1970"
I like that coin!!!
ver nice!
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
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