Question about the grade of coins

16 posts • viewed 242 times
Hi all,

I'm in a friendly discussion with a swapper about the grading of coins. The following coins were advertised as XF, but upon reception I don't feel they make that grade. I think they're not even close to XF. They all lack lustre and in some cases the rims are quite dented.

We agreed to ask the forum users to help us out, so we can both learn from it. Please let me know how you would grade each of the coins below.

1.

2.

3.

4.
"Pecunia non olet", but I know better...
I wouldn't grade any of them as EF; VF at best.
The same opinion here, none of them is XF. Coin 1 and 3 are easy to find in much better condition, without those ugly stains and spots. If these will be in the final swap, you're going to replace them sooner or later for a nicer one. I wouldn't recommend to put these in your swap, certainly not coin 1.
I haven't added my European coins yet so I don't know how easy to get the other two coins are, but they aren't in a great condition either, no way they are XF, not even close.
Grading is highly subjective. A circulated 2 Euro coin might be VF for me, F for someone else while a third person regards it as XF.
That's why I always send pictures before swapping.

Regarding your photos: F+ or if you want to stretch it VF- for #2. Also any spots, rim dents and obvious scratches should be mentioned separately.
Personally, I don't put coins that appear like these on my swap list unless they are very old or have some other attribute that makes them desirable or collectable. Grading is one thing while eye appeal is another subject.
Quote: "harryg"​Personally, I don't put coins that appear like these on my swap list.

​I hear you and I completely understand it. But Numista is also the best website for managing a coin collection. To keep track of all my coins (collection and doubles) I do put coins that appear like that on my swap list (although not euros in that condition since you can easily put these back in circulation).
I would rate them as VG, F, VG, and F.
VG coins I put in my collection but only as fillers. I do not show them on Numista so I might find a at minimum a F grade replacement.
As for my swap list I might list them with those grades if they are special like coin 3 but otherwise I will spend them.
Hello!

I would say probably something different from everyone above.

Personally, I would grade them as VF, the ones with black dirty spot at VF- or F.

But! The grading system of G, VG, F, VF, etc. doesn't fit well to modern coins. This system measuers the wear of the coins, and most modern coins simply didn't spend enough time to get to VG or even F condition. That is why people use much higher standards for them, and they are not really documented in catalogs, so there is a lot of disagreements between collectors.

If you look at "Mega Red US Guide" book, one cool feature is that they show most US coins in different conditions. A lot of people use this guide. And here you can see that coins in XF or VF have substantial wear on them which is hardly seen on modern Euro coins. So, if you go by the official grading system, these 2 Euro coins can qualify as XF, because not much details wore off. But, in my opinion, the grading should be tougher for the modern coins, and most people would agree on that.




And, of course, to avoid any issues, it is always a good practice to exchange photos before confirming the swap.
Quote: "iiruig"​​If you look at "Mega Red US Guide" book, one cool feature is that they show most US coins in different conditions.
​Thank you - this is something that we should have here: same coin shown in all grades. Anyone here with enough resources to tackle the issue?
Quote: "Dejan"
Quote: "iiruig"​​If you look at "Mega Red US Guide" book, one cool feature is that they show most US coins in different conditions.
​​
​​Thank you - this is something that we should have here: same coin shown in all grades. Anyone here with enough resources to tackle the issue?
​I don't think it will be possible to do that.

First, because of the copyright issues.
Second, because such catalogs for modem coins do not exist. Even in the "Mega Red US Guide" coins of recent years are shown only in UNC, or maybe in AU condition, and it says that let's s say 2015 US pennies are not collected below UNC grade.

So, in the end it comes to subjective grading among collectors. Some view XF as a coin that have some wear on it (relying on the guides that are shown in catalogs for older coins), some consider XF when it still has a mint luster left, but not as shiny as some other coins (and NGC would maybe even grade such a coin in MS62 or so).
Topic moved to "Numismatic questions" (ZacUK, 19-Feb-2021, 06:11PM)
For U.S. coins this is already done and would be redundant to do here on Numista. Other than U.S. coins is another matter. https://www.pcgs.com/photograde
Anyone else with an opinion about the grades for the coins above? :)
"Pecunia non olet", but I know better...
I'd say they are all VF (+/-) coins because all the major details are sharp and portraits will show some hair detail. In addition to that at least 75% of the coin's original design is apparent. In addition to grade you should mention those nicks, dirt and other issues which have no effect on grading.
Quote: "harryg"​For U.S. coins this is already done and would be redundant to do here on Numista. Other than U.S. coins is another matter. https://www.pcgs.com/photograde





​Looks quote disappointing: coin I'd grade as VF- gets AU58!
Quote: "Ollisaarinen"​In addition to grade you should mention those nicks, dirt and other issues which have no effect on grading.
Why would nicks have no effect on the grade? :)
"Pecunia non olet", but I know better...
Quote: "smvdbrink"
Quote: "Ollisaarinen"​In addition to grade you should mention those nicks, dirt and other issues which have no effect on grading.
​Why would nicks have no effect on the grade? :)
​​
​Because the classic grade system grades mostly how a coin is worn. If you drop an UNC coin in dirt, it won't automatically become F.
And if you clean an F coin from any fort, it won't automatically become XF.

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