bjherbison
Joined: 28-Jul-2017
Posts: 1452
Posted: 25-Aug-2021, 13:43
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Posted: 25-Aug-2021, 13:43
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See the previous discussion for Austria in
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic112296.html .
Francis II was HRE until 1806, and also Austrian Emperor Francis I from 1804. The current ruling authority list should have:
Francis II (1792-1806)
Francis I of Austria (1804-1805)
The current setup make KM# 30 look like a posthumous issue when it was issued by a double emperor.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces69234.html
ceh2019
Joined: 4-Jan-2019
Posts: 2416
Posted: 26-Aug-2021, 10:32
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Posted: 26-Aug-2021, 10:32
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This arrangement makes sense. However, the name is Franz (Franciscus in Latin), not Francis. We have to stop applying invented names to people.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Idolenz
Joined: 13-Jul-2013
Posts: 6591
Posted: 26-Aug-2021, 11:42
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Posted: 26-Aug-2021, 11:42
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The same reason why on every commemorative coin it is written Columbus instead of Cristoforo Colombo.
ceh2019
Joined: 4-Jan-2019
Posts: 2416
Posted: 26-Aug-2021, 11:46
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Posted: 26-Aug-2021, 11:46
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Not sure what your point is but here's a
coin that doesn't follow this "rule".
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
bjherbison
Joined: 28-Jul-2017
Posts: 1452
Posted: 26-Aug-2021, 12:23
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Posted: 26-Aug-2021, 12:23
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Quote: "ceh2019"This arrangement makes sense. However, the name is Franz (Franciscus in Latin), not Francis. We have to stop applying invented names to people.
The guidelines say:
QuoteEnglish is used for the names of all ruling authorities.
I checked Wikipedia, dictionary.reference.com, Krause, two paper dictionaries, my 1898 Encyclopedia Britannica (American edition), and two other reference books. All used "Francis".
Since British English is preferred I also found a BBC source that uses "Francis":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/1053880.stm
I'm not arguing with you about what it should be. But since you think the guidelines are incorrect that is separate from the date issue in this topic and should be in a separate discussion on changing the ruling authority name guidelines.
ceh2019
Joined: 4-Jan-2019
Posts: 2416
Posted: 26-Aug-2021, 12:27
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Posted: 26-Aug-2021, 12:27
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That's why I began by stating that the arrangement made sense.
The more times the inadequacies of the guidelines are pointed out, the more likely it is they will be corrected. Please don't think I'm picking on your particular efforts to improve Numista. We simply have to stop accepting this nonsense and start pushing for everything to be correct.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
tdziemia
Numista team
Joined: 26-Apr-2018
Posts: 2555
Posted: 9-Sep-2021, 06:18
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Posted: 9-Sep-2021, 06:18
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When I started submitting new entries , I followed the naming standards I saw in the existing listings .... which generally do not use English names, at least in places I've been involved with (mostly Low Countries and Italy).
So I agree maybe the guidelines on names of ruling authority needs some clarification ...
Status changed to Done
(Jarcek, 9-Sep-2021, 22:55)
Jarcek
Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 12183
Posted: 9-Sep-2021, 22:55
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Posted: 9-Sep-2021, 22:55
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Which coin here needs Francis I?
I modified the date in the meantime.
Catalogue administrator
bjherbison
Joined: 28-Jul-2017
Posts: 1452
Posted: 9-Sep-2021, 23:28
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Posted: 9-Sep-2021, 23:28
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The coin in question:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces69234.html
As with some Austrian coins, the legend shows it was issued by both HRE Francis II and Francis I of Austria.
For Austria the relevant ruling authorities are:
Francis II (1792-1806)
Francis I of Austria (1804-1835)
The end dates here should be 1805 as Further Austria is resolved.
The only other Further Austria coin in Numista issued after 1804 is the 6 Kreuzer (
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces11030.html ) which is a slightly different case as it is the same as the pre-1804 type and therefore doesn't explicitly mention being issued by a dual emperor.
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