Coins without km#? But still distinct sub-types! [solved]

14 posts • viewed 254 times

» Quick access to the last post

Let's say we have a coin without a km# from 2019 made of cu-ni and it certainly has a N#. Now in 2020 that same coin is made of Ni covered steel!

In the km# days the 2019 would be a km#nnn and the 2020 coin would become km#nnn.a. IE two types I suppose?

Now how would numista decide how to catalog that 2020 coin. If it's a new type, it definitely is according to our historical understanding of things, but in numista it would just get a completely new N#. How is the correlation between those two coins set up?

I'm just wondering how it's done, or maybe not done, and then why not?
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
You get a link in the see also field, simple as that.
N# numbers are systemless and mean as much as a KM# without a country.
If everything goes well they are unchanging but it seems to me when ever there is a delete a duplicate thread the older entry get deleted instead of improved defeating the purpose of such an "eternal"-number inventory system.
In this case Ole it wouldn't make any difference between the KM# days and the past KM# days. A new metal composition always means another type, so consequently it will get a new N# number, which of course isn't related to that other coin in any way.

But look at this example:



The Trinidad & Tobago, 10 cents KM# 31 is a copper-nickel coin. In 2017 they changed the composition to copper-nickel plated steel. In the KM# days this type would get the reference KM# 31b (KM# 31a already exists for the silver coin) but because of the difference in date it would be in exact the same place in our catalog as it is now without the KM# reference. Of course there is a correlation (KM# 31 and KM# 31b) but they are so far apart because of the date you can't even see both types in the same screen and nobody will notice this correlation.
And by the way, NumisMaster, although slowly, is still assigning KM# references so (maybe) sooner or later this type will get the KM# 31b reference.
I see that, but imagine you have both alloys used in the same year? It will not be easy for members to search the coin, or maybe searching for the denomimation and the specific year will get you both types? I never really played around with the search criteria.....
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Quote: "Sjoelund"​I see that, but imagine you have both alloys used in the same year? It will not be easy for members to search the coin, or maybe searching for the denomimation and the specific year will get you both types? I never really played around with the search criteria.....
​Search will get you both. The titles should have additional text to distinguish them ("20 Crackers, tin" and "20 Crackers, lead", or "1 Dog, long hair" and "1 Dog, short hair"), and (as was mentioned above) use the References/Links field to cross-link the related types to help someone viewing one of the types.
Thanks for the answers.
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Status changed to Solved (Sjoelund, 5-May-2022, 12:05 pm)
happens with the new 20 $ Jamaica coin but km numbers don't go to that date even though it probably be just the same number with an a right next to it https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces79681.html
Quote: "silvergeek"​happens with the new 20 $ Jamaica coin but km numbers don't go to that date even though it probably be just the same number with an a right next to it https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces79681.html
​Technically the non-a version only has a KM number until 2002. The 2006 and 2008 dates aren't listed in Numismaster.

KM# 182 in Numista: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces2441.html
KM# 182 in Numismaster: https://numismaster.com/MC_22253
Why not just continue, with the KM-number-system?
This new N-number-system does not show any logic, as far as I can see it..
...you can run,  but you can't hide...
Because we are not KM and yes the N# are just index numbers there is no logic other then time of addition to the catalog behind it but at least they are unique if nothing else.
Quote: "Idolenz"​Because we are not KM and yes the N# are just index numbers there is no logic other then time of addition to the catalog behind it but at least they are unique if nothing else.
​I know, offcourse, we are not KM. I mean we could have continued
on a similar way, like KM. Why not?
This N-system will lead to nowhere on the long run.
...you can run,  but you can't hide...
Quote: "yvon"
Quote: "Idolenz"​Because we are not KM and yes the N# are just index numbers there is no logic other then time of addition to the catalog behind it but at least they are unique if nothing else.
​​I know, offcourse, we are not KM. I mean we could have continued
​ on a similar way, like KM. Why not?
​This N-system will lead to nowhere on the long run.
The powers of numista are against it.

Reason 1. Only KM is allowed to assign km#
Reason 2. If numista would continue to use the same numbering system with f.ex NU# instead of KM# it would be a copyright infringement....
Reason 3. KM is still assigning km#, but at a snail speed.
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Quote: "Sjoelund"
Quote: "yvon"

Quote: "Idolenz"​Because we are not KM and yes the N# are just index numbers there is no logic other then time of addition to the catalog behind it but at least they are unique if nothing else.
​​​I know, offcourse, we are not KM. I mean we could have continued
​​ on a similar way, like KM. Why not?
​​This N-system will lead to nowhere on the long run.
​The powers of numista are against it.

​Reason 1. Only KM is allowed to assign km#
​Reason 2. If numista would continue to use the same numbering system with f.ex NU# instaed of KM# it would be a copyright infringement....
​Reason 3. KM is still assigning km#, but at a snail speed.
​Thank you for the clear answer. But still I consider this new system as a disadvance...
KM was/is not perfect but it IS a system.
...you can run,  but you can't hide...
I'm of the same opinion as YVON!
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com

Used time zone is UTC+2:00.
Current time is 12:09 am.