Where is my post on the Canadian monarchy?

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The title says it all:

Where is my post on the Canadians' attitude towards the monarchy?

I have a sense of what might have happened overnight, but I'd like to know for sure.

If deleted, who did so?
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I suspect, based on some of the more intense posts, it violated a forum policy and got deleted.
I don't know what happened to the post, but might it have gotten a little too political and heated for the forum?
That's what I suspect, but it would have been possible to delete the last two or three messages and lock it.

I had a number of ideas in there I wanted to save for other purposes, which explains why I wrote long replies. But now "poof", gone.

Why am I penalized for others' mistakes? That's what I want to know.
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The thread has been deleted as the majority of it became political and was not in line with forum policy.

@Camerinvs: I can check and send you the content of your posts by PM if you'd like.
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
Most likely because the topic is deeply political and will always invite our forum radicals.
Quote: "pejounet"​The thread has been deleted as the majority of it became political and was not in line with forum policy.

​@Camerinvs: I can check and send you the content of your posts by PM if you'd like.
​Yes, I would appreciate having it. Thanks.

I agree, Idolenz, that it is a political topic, though if you saw my original post, I was simply reporting on a recent survey and having some thoughts about how this waning of the monarchical element was reflected in coins and bank notes.

I don't know exactly what happened overnight, but I would have hoped that a discussion can be done on such a (rather benign??) topic without poo slinging...
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Quote: "Camerinvs"
Quote: "pejounet"​The thread has been deleted as the majority of it became political and was not in line with forum policy.
​​
​​@Camerinvs: I can check and send you the content of your posts by PM if you'd like.
​​Yes, I would appreciate having it. Thanks.

​I agree, Idolenz, that it is a political topic, though if you saw my original post, I was simply reporting on a recent survey and having some thoughts about how this waning of the monarchical element was reflected in coins and bank notes.

​I don't know exactly what happened overnight, but I would have hoped that a discussion can be done on such a (rather benign??) topic without poo slinging...
​Sent by PM.

The initial topic itself was not political per se but various following messages came in and were clearly against Numista policy.

Personal opinion, it is an interesting topic (perhaps I am biased because I'm in Canada). I guess it's just not for Numista forum. :(
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
Thanks for the quick reply, pejounet.

I don't know exactly what happened. I'm always interested in discussing --or even better: debating-- important issues, but respectfully.

Disagreeing respectfully by bringing up arguments for one's position while listening to others' counterarguments is the way we challenge ourselves and learn from others. But sometimes, one has to admit that the other side repeats talking points or dogmas, which is a waste of time.
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Basically, further messages were going into political views and expressions; or calling to "execute by hanging or burning alive" people...which is obviously against Numsita policy.


But I agree with you Camerinvs, I'm always in for a good discussion or debate. ;)
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
It's a miracle Hitler wasn't referenced.

Anyways, gonna let die without further discussion (from me).
I take some responsibility - sorry Camerinvs.

It was getting political and I took the bait by reacting to a certain troll's radical arguments.

We can discuss by other means politics if you like.

Sorry mods for me getting silly again8.
I love coins
Interesting.

Cannot we delete just the offending posts and not the whole topic?
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble.  It's what you know for sure, that just ain't so.  Mark Twain
Quote: "Peter M. Graham"​Interesting.

​Cannot we delete just the offending posts and not the whole topic?
That is what is usually done when the "problem" comes from only 1 or 2 posts.
Sometimes, thread removal may also depend on the number of justified reports received from members.
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
Thanks Slipstreamed, Moneytane, Peter, and pejounet.

Hitler and Nazi accusations: on this see Godwin's Law.

From what I understand, the argument became quite heated. Let's hope we can discuss any topics in the future with arguments rather than... well... whatever actually happened that I didn't get to see.

My point in starting the post (and the one about the Platinum Jubilee in late January) was to get some feedback on this whole monarchy issue in the context of numismatics and notaphilia. As some of you know, I am interested in the research aspect of coin and note collecting. I have a couple of things nearing completion and others which at this point are just ideas, including this idea of how the public's view of the monarchy is reflected in coins and notes (and, actually, stamps too since they are officially issued with assent from the government).

What better place than Numista to get feedback on any numismatic and notaphilic topic?

I agree with Peter that, ideally, only the offending posts should be removed. In my area of historical expertise, removing something entirely is called "damnatio memoriae" = "damned from memory" and ideally we don't want that.
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Don't worry for the Damnatio memoriae: threads/posts are not erased from history or memories, when removed they're just not displayed publicly anymore and kept in archives. ;)
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
Quote: "pejounet"​Don't worry for the Damnatio memoriae: threads/posts are not erased from history or memories, when removed they're just not displayed publicly anymore and kept in archives. ;)
​That's interesting. Are there any plans to make the archives accessible to general public or at least to Numista's users?
ūūūūū
Maybe they'll release them like Census results in the U.S. Gotta wait 40 years!
I think the member in question should be permanently banned as I see the forums being more constructive without his corrosive input. He uses foul and threatening language and has let his ultra racist and right wing views known too often.
I love coins
Have a nice weekend.
Pretty rough on me too. I don't mind the debate about everything that is human, and nothing human is foreign to me. But this is over the edge, embarrassing and undignified to people who are interested in the history and knowledge of coins. New Zealand belongs to the top ten states-countries, I think he is eighth in the world in living standards.
Security, full stomach, meaning of life - safety and well-being.
You are missing something, maybe a stay for a few months in North Korea, or a plant in "Mariopol" in the underground for two months.
I think you would moderate your views quickly.

I have quite a cheerful memory from my stay in Belgium at the invitation of the royal army -, somewhere I think the ancient town of "Huy" or that's what it was called (The nuclear power plant was there)
,,Belgian army officers stood by a huge half-portrait of the king, and next to him sat a beautiful lady in the chair - the queen in the picture, The crew chief says this is our king.
All the Belgians froze, raising their heads-noses, they put their hand to their heart.
And the Czechs were surprised-their reactions. And my colleagues started making fun of our then-embarrassing president and his then-actress and later wife. (It was Mr. Havel) and it was then that his madam played such a, say, ticklish role in a television movie.
We didn't feel proud and rather laughed.,,

Find your way to each other with the king, the queen, the white-toothed chief, the chairman of the council. No matter who it is, it's important to feel proud, have a full stomach, and live a happy life.
And if that's not the case, then make coups and find a way.
Ivan
@numinis: No, not to be shared publicly; kept for reference for admins/moderators only.
Most of the trashed posts/threads are about common mistakes or basic forum policy e.g. a new member trying to sell while not allowed, a member posting twice the same thread, an old thread a member asked to be deleted, etc.

@Slipstreamed: Minimum 80 years, and we first need to negotiate rights for the movie covering the Numista secret archives...we expect to surpass all movies about Vatican archives :P
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
Oooooookkkkayyyyyyy... I woke up at about 7:30 this morning, saw there had been some ... well ... some activity overnight, part of which is now gone.

One of the things I forgot to do in a previous post is to link to a great website about how to detect bad arguments and how to improve one's own arguments (everyone, including myself, needs this, since the human brain is not naturally rational). It's called Thou shalt not commit logical fallacies.

It's a near complete list, though it's missing the Argument from incomplete devastation. You hear this one even on the news sometimes. It's when a community has just been devastated by a flood or earthquake and somehow a statue of the Virgin Mary or some other relic still stands unscathed somewhere in the middle of the devastation, hence God. (If you believe in a god, OK, but you should definitely have better arguments than that.)

Also absolutely essential basic knowledge is the scientific approach to detecting baloney. This video is based on Carl Sagan's original idea of the baloney detection kit.

The Socratic Method is also a great way to go about debating an issue. You ask questions to your interlocutor about his/her position. An easy way to begin is, I would argue, something along the line: "What is your best argument that, you think, would or should make ME believe this thing or concept you believe?"
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The original post on the waning interest in the monarchy was another excellent topic initiated by @Camerinvs.   Just b/c it was marred by a few outrageous replies (from the “usual suspects”) doesn't mean that the subject should have been obliterated & was not worth keeping.     

 

-Delete the offensive comments & give the offending members a warning.  If they cannot abide by the rules suspend the member(s) in question - but please do not DELETE the entire thread (arbitrarily) unless you wish to have a dead/inactive forum!  

 

I have seen some good forums literally fizzle into dormancy at the hands of a few radicals who thought “free speech” gave them the right to terrorize & troll & attack others. Unfortunately since contributors remain anonymous there is a propensity for some pretty inappropriate/offensive remarks.  Whats even more unfortunate is that moderators don't know how to deal with it & typically hit the “kill switch. ” Once moderators overreact it can lead to less contributions b/c members worry (& anticipate) that what they will write will simply be deleted. 

 

I wish I could say it was It was just the “fading monarchy” as a subject that went up in smoke here but we all know there's been several excellent topics that disappeared (into oblivion) b/c of the poor behaviour of a few members.  It takes a few parties to kill a forum but it often leaves the person who initiated the topic feeling pretty disappointed/empty too (& all it takes is feeling like "its not worth my time to post" to dampen a forum fast). And, in the end, it just turns a forum into the dreaded crickets….

 

Anyway, now that I have expressed my 2 cents, here's the CTV's W-5 Journalistic take on the subject.

https://sites.google.com/view/notaphilycculture/collecting-banknotes

I agree, my post was deleted in the process and it left me feeling annoyed that my effort was caught up in the flame wars between 2 people who were not even commenting specifically on the monarchy in the Canadian context. 

Outings administrator

Thanks so much, Serial_Number_8, for your sound comments, and to you ashlobo for being a great Numistist as well.

 

I remember about four or five years ago on a US-based coin-collector platform that the name “Elvis Presley” was removed from a post by an administrator because of some 🤡 policy they have about naming real people. It's true that Elvis had died only about 40 years earlier… or else the admin in question was a conspiracy theorist who believed Elvis was still alive 🤪.

 

On this site, we should be careful not to fall into this same trap. From the numismatic point of view, the Monarchy is very interesting. The current head of the family has been on the throne for seven decades, a period in which huge transformations of the “dominions” have occurred socially. This is reflected in the coinage and my posts on the subject are meant to collect a few thoughts and see what others think. By the way, whatever happened last time that caused the cancellation of my post, some of the presumed offenders had provided excellent feedback… 

 

The majority of my posts on Numista are about coin identification. But once in a while, I use this site to throw some ideas out there and see what kind of feedback I get. One of the first times I did so was to find out whether anyone could help with a famous countermark from Port of Spain, Trinidad. I wasn't surprised to get little feedback since this was quite specific, and I actually got a lot more from members of a Trinidad history group on Facebook (I actually joined Facebook just to join that group). A couple of people were able to obtain PDFs of books that I could not obtain even by interlibrary loan, though eventually I found this important piece of evidence in GoogleBooks

 

I am now working on a “follow up”. Just yesterday, I found evidence (i.e. an early 1870s source) of something I already suspected, that the great specialist of British colonial coinages, Fred Pridmore, dated these countermarks too early. He says the countermarking scheme started around 1854; it actually started around 1860-1862, which I now know thanks to this new evidence that no numismatist has ever used. Such discoveries are a lot of fun. It's really a “Holy sh*t!!” moment.

 

You may think “it's only six years”, but it's actually quite significant because the “F D” scheme is much closer than we thought to the time Horatio Rapsey issued his own half-stampee tokens. It is possible that one shopkeeper reacted to the other's issuing his own half-stampees. This possible competition may also be a consequence of an increased circulation of British currency in this period, while people were still using the old “bits” and “stampees” units (at odds with sterling) when making small payments.

 

I wrote evidence in italics twice, above, because this is a huge problem with amateur numismatists who publish their research: Too often authors don't provide their friggin' evidence, and journal editors don't ask them to. In Canada, one of the top amateur numismatists was Robert Willey who passed away very suddenly in the mid-90s at about 65. He was perhaps the most knowledgeable Canadian numismatist out there, especially for the colonial period, but to read him can be very frustrating because he usually doesn't provide his sources. If you decide to publish your numismatic discoveries, as I know some members of this site do, please provide your sources in footnotes.

 

By the way, one of the most frustrating things I've seen on this site is people who tell me things like: 

 

“Well, since Krause says X, therefore X is true, even though I can't find a single actual coin or banknote to prove that X is true." 

 

This is the very fallacious (and very common) argument from authority. One of the many fallacies to be avoided!!

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