5 lire 1914 Vittorio Emanuele III Re D'Italia

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Hi, I recently found this coin in my collection, and after some research I came to the conclusion that it could be an original. The coin is very old and partially damaged, from the photos you can see how the edges have worn out over time, and the same can be said about the images in the centre of the coin. The coin weighs 22.41G (the original should weigh around 25G), but I believe this is due to the fairly intense wear. On the photos you can see the writing '' fert '' on the sides which has almost disappeared completely, moreover most of the details on the images has disappeared and I believe that this is the cause of the weight of only 22.4G. The coin has a diameter of around 3.75CM and I was wandering if anyone could tell me if its a original or not. 

 

Hello! You have a very bad/low opinion about the quality of your coin! It looks very nice to me and I can grade it as a decent XF in details. The legend FERT(for all italian coins of the royal house of Savoy) is also ok and,perhaps,due to a week struck and not use in circulation.

But,unfortunately,your coin is 100% fake/copy DUE TO ITS WEIGHT,VERY LOW TO BE DUE TO WEAR!!!

I saw very,very used coins(5 francs of Napoleon,for example)which from a mint 25g. have lost about 0.5g. in circulation.

Sorry again for the bad news!

Yes, I would tend to agree.  2.6g of weight is huge.  Imagine almost 3 paperclips worth of metal scraped off the coin.  I don't see that kind of wear on it.  Still, looks great though!

Hi, does anything apart from the weight indicate that it is a fake?

Judge yourself

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces59706.html

You have both sides, the light is yours and the “perfect” is from numista (a “prova” = “essai”), see above!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Topic moved to "Numismatic questions" (ZacUK, 15-Jun-2022, 06:24 pm)

Too many differencies in design and rim,like in the game ''find the differencies!''. Also,the lack of inscript above the quadriga…

Surely a fake,nice for who never saw the genuine coin. But not even a good COPY…

Sorry,sorry….

AndiPasculescu10

Too many differencies in design and rim,like in the game ''find the differencies!''. Also,the lack of inscript above the quadriga…

Surely a fake,nice for who never saw the genuine coin. But not even a good COPY…

Sorry,sorry….

That is maybe a fast judgement, the OP's coin is compared to an Essay coin, please take that into account.

Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com

10% weight loss is very hard to defend as has been stated already (especially since you can still read the edge).  Have you done anything to indicate it's even silver?

 

Here's the standard circulation coin.  Maybe Ole can do his gif magic?

 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces19577.html 

 

 

btw…Welcome to Numista!

Ok,maybe! BUT EVERYTHING IS SAID BY THE WEIGHT!!! NEVER,NEVER SUCH A DIFFERENCE WITH THE GENUINE COIN CAN PROVE ALSO THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE COIN PUT IN DISCUSION!!

As you may also know,I myself encountered nonmagnetic ''silver'' coins with only 0.10-0.20 g. difference in weight which are modern copies and not silver made! For example: different Papal States scudo coins from sec. XIX,with just such wear which MIGHT JUSTIFY THE VERY SMALL LOST OF WEIGHT… EVEN SO,THEY PROVED TO BE NICE DONE COPIES/FAKES!!!

Dear rsirian1,please only notice the diffence of the rim with the genuine circulation coin & IT IS SUFFICIENT!

AndiPasculescu10

Dear rsirian1,please only notice the diffence of the rim with the genuine circulation coin & IT IS SUFFICIENT!

And here I thought I was agreeing with you.  Why are you trying to convince me?

I might do some magic, but I really don't think it's worth it…… The AndiPasculescu10 can do what he wants, I'm out🤓

Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com

Sjoelund

I might do some magic, but I really don't think it's worth it…… The AndiPasculescu10 can do what he wants, I'm out🤓

lol…I don't blame you.

Have I upset someone?!? If so,with what please?

My appologies!…

How do you check if a coin is silver? If so, does it mean that it is a original or that is not enough? I am no expert in coins therefore I am asking out of curiosity

Hello,young(?)collegue!

No,it is not sufficient to be made of silver to be also genuine/original! Seldom but sometimes copies are made of silver…

To verify if you have a silver item first you may verify if it stucks to a magnet.Silver is a non-magnetic metal,so it doesn't stuck! But there are many fakes made of other non-magnetic metals.

So,to know 100% what you have you must find a jewelry shop or coin dealer,go there and kindly ask to verify with a special acid they all have if you have silver or not.

BUT DON'T FORGET TO MENTION THERE THAT IT IS A COLECTABLE COIN AND THEY SHOULD PAY ATTENTION WITH IT! THAT MEANS THEY HAVE TO PUT THE ACID NOT ON THE COIN BUT ON THE FINE TRACE A SMALL PART OF THE EDGE(MOST INVISIBLE PART)LEAVES ON A SPECIAL BLACK STONE THEY ALSO HAVE FOR THEIR DAYLY WORK.

THIS PROOF IS AN INFAILABLE ONE!

giggiolike

How do you check if a coin is silver? If so, does it mean that it is a original or that is not enough? I am no expert in coins therefore I am asking out of curiosity

Here's one good discussion of non-destructive tests for silver, some cheap and easy, some hard or expensive.  If it is actually silver it does not mean it is authentic, however if it is not silver the answer is obvious.  So the goal is to try multiple tests, some may say “possibly silver” but if one says “not silver” you're done.

 

https://www.silvercoins.com/fake-silver-coins-14-ways-to-spot-counterfeits/ 

Hi,  I have indeed confirmed that it is silver. That obviously doesn't take away from the weight discrepancy and the other details on the coin. I believe that it is likely to be a fake, although the loss in weight could (possibly) be explained by the wear down on the rim (not sure how a coin can lose so much rim). I will try to take it to different numismatics to get a definitive answer. thank you all for the help

Good luck!  Let us know the results!

If it would be the lost of weight due to the use of the rim,no letters like FERT should have been seen! Besides that,a real coin in circulation looses everywhere(not only on the rim)! It doesn't make sense to be REALY used mostly there,on the rim.

The rim can also be measured

Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com

AndiPasculescu10

Ok,maybe! BUT EVERYTHING IS SAID BY THE WEIGHT!!! NEVER,NEVER SUCH A DIFFERENCE WITH THE GENUINE COIN CAN PROVE ALSO THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE COIN PUT IN DISCUSION!!

As you may also know,I myself encountered nonmagnetic ''silver'' coins with only 0.10-0.20 g. difference in weight which are modern copies and not silver made! For example: different Papal States scudo coins from sec. XIX,with just such wear which MIGHT JUSTIFY THE VERY SMALL LOST OF WEIGHT… EVEN SO,THEY PROVED TO BE NICE DONE COPIES/FAKES!!!

Please, do not shout by using capitals, it has been asked before, by sombody else. It is really anoying, and it reduces the value of your comments.

...you can run,  but you can't hide...

Hello! Dear yvon,in no way I intended to shout by using capital or black letters! Please be 100% sure of this! I am so sorry that you (or another member as well) interpreted like that my posts. My only fair intension was always only to underline the importance of one or other of those statements of mine,in order to be well kept in mind and so avoiding posible serious errors. And,please,why the capital or black letters are anoying or prohibitive? If they would have been judged like that by everyone,then why are they offered as an alternative to eachone who posts on the site?

Am very curious to know the answer(s) to these…

Friendly regards!

AndiPasculescu10

Hello! Dear yvon,in no way I intended to shout by using capital or black letters! Please be 100% sure of this! I am so sorry that you (or another member as well) interpreted like that my posts. My only fair intension was always only to underline the importance of one or other of those statements of mine,in order to be well kept in mind and so avoiding posible serious errors. And,please,why the capital or black letters are anoying or prohibitive? If they would have been judged like that by everyone,then why are they offered as an alternative to eachone who posts on the site?

Am very curious to know the answer(s) to these…

Friendly regards!

The capital letters are there to start a sentence with or to do so with a name. I am sure from your good intentions, but is just completely unnescesary to stress on your statements, we are not on the fish-market here. Everybody on this forum has, more or less, knowledge of coins.
So everybody who is intrested to read your comments, will understand what you mean, no need to do so ‘overwhelming’. Thanks.

...you can run,  but you can't hide...

rsirian1

giggiolike

How do you check if a coin is silver? If so, does it mean that it is a original or that is not enough? I am no expert in coins therefore I am asking out of curiosity

Here's one good discussion of non-destructive tests for silver, some cheap and easy, some hard or expensive.  If it is actually silver it does not mean it is authentic, however if it is not silver the answer is obvious.  So the goal is to try multiple tests, some may say “possibly silver” but if one says “not silver” you're done.

 

https://www.silvercoins.com/fake-silver-coins-14-ways-to-spot-counterfeits/ 

Very interesting article - thank you for the link

https://www.ngccoin.com/resources/counterfeit-detection/top/world/19/

The silver tests are not necessary. This reproduction is totally different from the real coin. You can not find in your collection a 7.000€ coin for chance, be sure

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