1860 bun head penny (f15 v 4) die crack?

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raised crack running from the edge to the E. die crack?

Kevin
Topic moved to "Numismatic questions" (ZacUK, 3-Aug-2022, 07:36 pm)

What I see is a cud.

https://coins.thefuntimesguide.com/die-crack-error-coins-to-look-for/

harryg

What I see is a cud.

https://coins.thefuntimesguide.com/die-crack-error-coins-to-look-for/

thanks for youre opinion. im still learning the difference between the two terms any information is always appreciated.  

Kevin

showmethesilver

harryg

thanks for youre opinion. im still learning the difference between the two terms any information is always appreciated.  

My pleasure. It's not easy. So many nuances and terms in the hobby. If you read the article even seasoned collectors and experts will disagree about what caused a defect on a coin and what to label it or attribute it to. I see a cud but others may disagree.

I see evidence of a cracked die. My understanding of a cud is that it is on the edge of the coin and caused by a broken die.  http://cuds-on-coins.com/  ; https://www.coinsandcanada.com/coins-errors-varieties.php?error=cuds&id=3    Edit, The coinsandcanada link has a picture of a broken die.

Beekeeper

I see evidence of a cracked die. My understanding of a cud is that it is on the edge of the coin and caused by a broken die.  http://cuds-on-coins.com/  ; https://www.coinsandcanada.com/coins-errors-varieties.php?error=cuds&id=3    Edit, The coinsandcanada link has a picture of a broken die.

Verbiage. Many cuds are caused by a die that is cracking only at the edge where the planchet fills the void resulting in what is described as a cud. Though not all cuds are caused by a cracking die. 

 

https://coins.thefuntimesguide.com/die-crack-error-coins-to-look-for/

so from what im guessing a cud occures when a crack forms on the edge of the die this leads to a break in the die and a piece of the die to break off. so all cuds come from a die crack that leads to a break. so wouldnt this error on this coin be a transitory error between the two not a cud but also not a die crack. 

i have seen another 1860 F15 V4 at auction with a cud covering the  FED. to me this shows that this is the crack in the die that led to a cud. what you all think?

Kevin

Let me explain this particular cud this way. A die is manufactured and either through a manufacturing defect or simply through thousands of repetitive strikes at extremely high pressure, the edge of the die begins to weaken forming a void. It make sense that a dies most vulnerable and weakest  areas would be around the edge because there is nothing remaining to support the edges. No? Ok. Now a slight defect occurs on the edge of the die and the tons of pressure for the next strike forces the planchet material into that void. A small cud on the edge only. This defect is not caught by the mint and it continues to strike the planchets until it is caught by mint inspectors and the die is replaced. In the meantime some of these defective coins are released from the mint and are already in circulation. How many escaped the mint? Nobody knows. Small defect or "cud" on the edge. At the time, the general public does not notice and could care less. We notice and we care because of our interests. Additional value? None in this case.

harryg

Let me explain this particular cud this way. A die is manufactured and either through a manufacturing defect or simply through thousands of repetitive strikes at extremely high pressure, the edge of the die begins to weaken forming a void. It make sense that a dies most vulnerable and weakest  areas would be around the edge because there is nothing remaining to support the edges. No? Ok. Now a slight defect occurs on the edge of the die and the tons of pressure for the next strike forces the planchet material into that void. A small cud on the edge only. This defect is not caught by the mint and it continues to strike the planchets until it is caught by mint inspectors and the die is replaced. In the meantime some of these defective coins are released from the mint and are already in circulation. How many escaped the mint? Nobody knows. Small defect or "cud" on the edge. At the time, the general public does not notice and could care less. We notice and we care because of our interests. Additional value? None in this case.

as a mechanical engineer by trade i am aware of how materials fracture under pressure or due to a flaw in the metals structure. what i was getting at is that this is at the early stage of the "cuds" formation on the die (pressure fracture/flaw). it seem it did get larger before being notice by the mint. as for its value i personally dont care, i just like to collect error coins. 

thanks for youre input  on this matter though 👍

Kevin

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