Malta order

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hello

 

why Malta order change to exonumia

 

Thanks

As I'm given to understand, the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (SMOM) as a functional government responsible for the affairs of Malta ended in 1798 when the French captured it, and Malta became a British protectorate towards the end of the Napoleonic Wars (1814). After that, the currency issued by SMOM was replaced in everyday use by the Pound Sterling, then the Maltese Lira, and finally the Euro.

 

SMOM seems to have continued to exist throughout & continues to exist today, but more as a charitable society than a government. The UN recognises it as a non-state entity (apparently like the IOC & Red Cross).

As I am given to understand it, Numista's policy is that anything in “Coins” must have a recognised value tied to a currency of a Sovereign Nation. SMOM is not a nation. As such, they are not “coins” in that respect which is why they've probably been moved to Exonumia.

Exonumia is a relative new category to Numista, so what I suspect has happened is that the SMOM Scudo was added onto Numista before Exonumia was an option because they are “coin-like”. And apparently someone has noticed this & decided to move it across accordingly.

 

At least, that's my understanding & best guess of why the move was made/approved.

thanks. I understand but is question 

controversy

It is a controversial move, but the site team debate well such decisions, so we must respect it.

 

There are other debatable areas, like notgeld, and micronations, now in with coins. could change too…

Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac

Soon all countries will be eliminated.  My country count goes down almost every time I log in.  All coins will just be listed as issuers under Earth at this rate.

Hello,
The coins of the Order of Malta up to 1798 are still in the coin category: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/malte-1.html

The souvenir coins issued by the Order after 1961 are not circulating or legal tender anywhere. They have been changed to the exonumia category: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?e=ordre_de_malte&r=&ct=exonumia&ttcc=y

Now that we have even Eswatini separated, the Order coins deserve a separate entry.

 

The community appreciates!

Xavier

The souvenir coins issued by the Order after 1961 are not circulating or legal tender anywhere. 

Then, Andorra diners will move to Exonumia?

Always look on the bright side of life!

Sorry, I cannot find the information of why the Order of Malta was merged with modern Malta, I (we) would like to know the reasons, the history, the arguments, the motivations to that polemic merging. 

 

Or is this information hidden for the Numista users/members?

Geison

Sorry, I cannot find the information of why the Order of Malta was merged with modern Malta, I (we) would like to know the reasons, the history, the arguments, the motivations to that polemic merging. 

 

Or is this information hidden for the Numista users/members?

Previous situation was an issuer called Order of Malta mixing coinage from actual Malta and Exonumia from a modern NGO.

We gathered all coins from the Malta issuer along its history, and used ruling authorities to differentiate Hospitallers, French, British and Independent periods, with flags and currencies. This way users can see all coins issued by Malta.

Its what we do everywhere else, why would it be different?

Compendium

Geison

Sorry, I cannot find the information of why the Order of Malta was merged with modern Malta, I (we) would like to know the reasons, the history, the arguments, the motivations to that polemic merging. 

 

Or is this information hidden for the Numista users/members?

Previous situation was an issuer called Order of Malta mixing coinage from actual Malta and Exonumia from a modern NGO.

We gathered all coins from the Malta issuer along its history, and used ruling authorities to differentiate Hospitallers, French, British and Independent periods, with flags and currencies. This way users can see all coins issued by Malta.

Its what we do everywhere else, why would it be different?

Master Coin Referee
Coin referee for Costa Rica, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama and El Salvador

Revisor principal de monedas
Revisor de Numista para monedas de Costa Rica, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panamá y El Salvador

Slava Ukraini!

Compendium

Geison

Sorry, I cannot find the information of why the Order of Malta was merged with modern Malta, I (we) would like to know the reasons, the history, the arguments, the motivations to that polemic merging. 

 

Or is this information hidden for the Numista users/members?

Previous situation was an issuer called Order of Malta mixing coinage from actual Malta and Exonumia from a modern NGO.

We gathered all coins from the Malta issuer along its history, and used ruling authorities to differentiate Hospitallers, French, British and Independent periods, with flags and currencies. This way users can see all coins issued by Malta.

Its what we do everywhere else, why would it be different?

Because of this:

 

We must keep a standart like this:

 

Malta

  ---- Order of Malta (1530-1825)

  ----Malta (1825-date)

 

Like it was made with other cases:

Turi

https://www.instagram.com/my_world_coins_collection

THE SOVEREIGN MILITARY HOSPITALLER

ORDER OF ST JOHN OF JERUSALEM OF

RHODES AND OF MALTA !

 

This is a unique case of a Sovereign entity that has been recognized as such by 113 Official Sovereign states as well as having 2 Properties in Rome being granted extraterritorial status and 1 in the Republic of Malta. Moreover, they exchange an ambassador with all the states they’ve got diplomatic relations with and have embassies in a large number of these countries. What else ? They’ve got a seat at the UN holding observer status (together with Palestine), they issue stamps, license plates, passports and coins. Which brings us to the topic !

 

Since they’re a sovereign entity they’ve been granted the right to issue their own currency and coins. Their website is quoted as saying “In 1961, the Order of Malta again began issuing coins during the Lieutenancy of Fra’ Ernesto Paternò Castello, after it acquired legal status as a subject of international law. The new series of coins were in scudo and the relative fractions (1 scudo equals 12 tarì, 240 grani and 480 Italian lire).”

 

https://postemagistrali.orderofmalta.int/en/history/

 

Moreover, was this currency ever used in real time ? The answer is yes. Why ? Well the order has been issuing stamps aswell since 1966 denoting them in face values as Grani, Tari & Scudo. Whilst these waren’t acceptable thoughout the world they’ve been accepted by the majority of countries it has deplomatic ties with. These stamps started being denoted in Euros starting from 2005, so technically the currency was used internationally for something ( not the coins themselves but the currency ) till 2004. Currently 58 countries accept their stamps as valid means of postage due, such countries include Portugal, Canada, Uruguay and etcera.

 

https://postemagistrali.orderofmalta.int/wp-content/uploads/sites/25/2022/09/Countries-where-there-is-a-postal-agreement-in-force.pdf

 

The currency itself is even pegged to euro to an exchange rate amounting to the following :-

 

1 Scudo = 12 Tarì = 240 Grani

1 Scudo = 0.24 Euro; and 1 Tarì = 0.02 Euro

 

https://www.orderofmalta.int/government/stamps-coins/a-little-history/

 

They even had their own mint for the mintage of coins starting from 1964 till 2007. This mint even minted coins for the Republic of Malta and donated 2 minting machines to the Malta Mint that opened in 1972.

 

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/the-history-of-coinage-in-malta.179810

 

With this in mind, I find it baffling to the very least to have moved this currency to exonumia ! All the above points stated are hard facts that cannot be ignored. The Maltese Scudo is an official currency, and the coins issued by the SMOM are exactly that, COINS !

Order of Malta is listed separately.

 

Aidan.

BCNumismatics

Order of Malta is listed separately.

 

Aidan.

Not yet in my collection.

Turi

We must keep a standart like this:

 

Malta

  ---- Order of Malta (1530-1825)

  ----Malta (1825-date)

 

I don't think that Malta was called “Order of Malta” before 1825.

 

LaMaltese

This is a unique case of a Sovereign entity that has been recognized as such by 113 Official Sovereign states as well as having 2 Properties in Rome being granted extraterritorial status and 1 in the Republic of Malta. Moreover, they exchange an ambassador with all the states they’ve got diplomatic relations with and have embassies in a large number of these countries. What else ? They’ve got a seat at the UN holding observer status (together with Palestine), they issue stamps, license plates, passports and coins. Which brings us to the topic !

Even if the modern Order of Malta is often considered a sovereign entity under international law, it doesn't make the coins legal or circulating or redeemable anywhere. The UN permanent observer status is not an argument for making the coins legal tende either: organizations such as the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, the OPEC Fund for International Development and the International Olympic Committee are also UN observers.

 

Geison

BCNumismatics

Order of Malta is listed separately.

 

Aidan.

Not yet in my collection.

The Order of Malta was kept as an issuer for exonumia. It is listed as the issuer for all the souvenir coins they issued since 1961.
Also, I just made a change so that, if you type “Order of Malta” in the issuer search field of the coin catalogue, it will also return Malta, in case you are interested in the coin minted by the Order in the 16th-18th century.
 

Under those parameters, shouldn't micronations be considered exonumia?

bzanchet

Under those parameters, shouldn't micronations be considered exonumia?

Do you feel Ordercof Malta is a micronation?

Not what I asked, I mean souvenir coins with no legal value, like Sealand

bzanchet

Not what I asked, I mean souvenir coins with no legal value, like Sealand

Micronations have an alledged territorial sovereignty, which differentiate from the Order I think

Oh ok thank You 😉

Compendium

bzanchet

Not what I asked, I mean souvenir coins with no legal value, like Sealand

Micronations have an alledged territorial sovereignty, which differentiate from the Order I think

Even in Micronation I would like to see consistency and place then all on the same category and not one in coin and the other in Exonumia like today, it’s just annoying trying to guess where I should look for my Micronation coin on coins or Exonumia, based on ????

Always look on the bright side of life!

Indomini16

Compendium

bzanchet

Not what I asked, I mean souvenir coins with no legal value, like Sealand

Micronations have an alledged territorial sovereignty, which differentiate from the Order I think

Even in Micronation I would like to see consistency and place then all on the same category and not one in coin and the other in Exonumia like today, it’s just annoying trying to guess where I should look for my Micronation coin on coins or Exonumia, based on ????

Lets please not mix different topics in same thread, can you open a new one if you need?

Compendium

Lets please not mix different topics in same thread, can you open a new one if you need?

Made long time ago already. I’m just surprised we fix “related” topics without fixing a clear guideline for Micronation, ending with strange argumentation about Sealand being in coin catalog and not others ghost nations …

Always look on the bright side of life!

Xavier

Turi

We must keep a standart like this:

 

Malta

  ---- Order of Malta (1530-1825)

  ----Malta (1825-date)

 

I don't think that Malta was called “Order of Malta” before 1825.

 

LaMaltese

This is a unique case of a Sovereign entity that has been recognized as such by 113 Official Sovereign states as well as having 2 Properties in Rome being granted extraterritorial status and 1 in the Republic of Malta. Moreover, they exchange an ambassador with all the states they’ve got diplomatic relations with and have embassies in a large number of these countries. What else ? They’ve got a seat at the UN holding observer status (together with Palestine), they issue stamps, license plates, passports and coins. Which brings us to the topic !

Even if the modern Order of Malta is often considered a sovereign entity under international law, it doesn't make the coins legal or circulating or redeemable anywhere. The UN permanent observer status is not an argument for making the coins legal tende either: organizations such as the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, the OPEC Fund for International Development and the International Olympic Committee are also UN observers.

 

Geison

BCNumismatics

Order of Malta is listed separately.

 

Aidan.

Not yet in my collection.

The Order of Malta was kept as an issuer for exonumia. It is listed as the issuer for all the souvenir coins they issued since 1961.
Also, I just made a change so that, if you type “Order of Malta” in the issuer search field of the coin catalogue, it will also return Malta, in case you are interested in the coin minted by the Order in the 16th-18th century.
 

What about the usage of the currency up until 2004 on their stamps ? Which mind you were accepted by several countries (around 50) as valid stamps ? The currency was thus existing. Moreover, a micronation with zero sovereignty that is merely a joke (Sealand comes to mind) is put under coins whilst a sovereign entity with 113 countries recognizing it as such is put under exonumia. I am sorry but this is ridiculous, frankly putting it. 

Compendium

bzanchet

Not what I asked, I mean souvenir coins with no legal value, like Sealand

Micronations have an alledged territorial sovereignty, which differentiate from the Order I think

“Alleged” being the key word. None of their ‘territory’ is recognized by any sovereign nation. These ‘nations’ were the fruits of someone waking up one day and deciding to make their own country. It’s ridiculous and they’re simply irrelevant. The order on the other hand has embassies all over the world, they have diplomatic relations with 113 countries, they are granted extraterritorial properties in Italy & Republic of Malta, as well as embassies in many other countries. These extraterritorial properties are very much more serious than these so called micronations with territorial sovereignty. I mean seriously, can you listen to your arguments without joking ? 

By the way I invite who wants to add any information in our request to get Order of Malta as a separated entity, thumbs up or thumbs down, any information is welcome

 

 

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic138901.html

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