QV pennies grade please

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I have these 2 QV pennies dated 1841 and 1858 (possible double date error), I would like your opinion on grade and value please. Thanks in advance.


I give the first a F+ and the second F.

Beautiful coins, I just feel with some of the damage it takes them down a grade or two.
Quote: bam777I give the first a F+ and the second F.

Beautiful coins, I just feel with some of the damage it takes them down a grade or two.
There is no damage on the 1841 it has planchet errors (can't remember what you call the error but it's when the metal has flaking (lifting) on it).
VF+ details for the 1841 and VF for the other one.

Both coins you can see most of the hair and face detail on Vic, You can see all the fingers on the trident and features of Britannia's face and all the shield detail.  There's no issues with the detail of the coins, the only issue is the damage/mintage error
In that case: I'll give the first a sound VF.
Quote: tony_k_1965There is no damage on the 1841 it has planchet errors (can't remember what you call the error but it's when the metal has flaking (lifting) on it).
That's called a Lamentation Error.
Quote: ZuluRaptorSpace
Quote: tony_k_1965There is no damage on the 1841 it has planchet errors (can't remember what you call the error but it's when the metal has flaking (lifting) on it).
That's called a Lamentation Error.
Lamination Error
Oops. Looks like my post had one, too.
VF+ and VF (VF+ & VF- old school style) but....

Defects outside normal wear and tear should be listed separately from the grade. A VF coin with a hole in it doesn't become a problem-free F grade.

Lamination errors are caused during the minting process and are either the complete absence of a layer (rare and desirable) or the partial peeling of the outermost layer, not so good. I don't care for error coins much either way but I guess with lamination errors, go big or go home.

Also, lamination errors can only occur where a coin has a core and an outer layer to be laminated! The nasty low profile US cents are a good example. It can occur on pretty much any plated coin. ZacUK posted some pictures recently of current British coins with this type of problem.

I don't believe the pre-1860 QV pennies are a candidate due to being pretty much entirely copper.

In the case of the first coin, it's 100% post mint damage (PMD). You can even see the scratches around the hole where some enterprising soul has been "improving" it. Both sides of the coin have what appear to be a dark red paint or enamel in places. I think someone got carried away trying to remove one of them. Copper is notoriously soft, have you ever seen a copper greatsword? There's a reason for that. For that reason I'm pretty forgiving about a few knocks and bangs on large coppers. Try a bit of solvent on one of the spots away from the main focal areas, be cautious as it can turn copper into a nasty pink colour.

Yet another good find Tony, you must have a pretty decent collection by now.
Non illegitimis carborundum est.  Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!  
Quote: pnightingaleYet another good find Tony, you must have a pretty decent collection by now.
Thanks Phil for the information and everyone else.
My collection is improving quite well, I also picked up several crowns today which I will add photos shortly - asking opinions on grade again, as it's always nice to have other peoples' opinions.

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