brismike
Numista team
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 1437
Posted: 17-May-2015, 19:22
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Posted: 17-May-2015, 19:22
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Hi Everyone - I am new to this website but have been collecting coins for quite some time. I collect Australian Decimal, UK Decimal, Euro's and USA coins.
I have been working my way through the list of Australian coins in the Catalogue finding out the KM# numbers. So far I have done $2 and now am looking at the $1 coins.
I have got an extensive collection of Australian $1 coins and I have found quite a few that are not included in the catalogue on this site.
For instance the 2007 Year of the Pig Commemorative coin from the Royal Australian Mint 25mm, mintage 22,349. I could easily add it to the catalogue but how is the KM# number determined? There are lots more like this one.
Any help appreciated.
Cheers Mike
Referee for Australia & New Zealand Coins & Exonumia, Papua New Guinea & Cocos & Keeling Islands Coins & Australian Banknotes. I Collect > Australia, UK & Dependancies, NZ Sets, USA & Euros plus Misc Exonumia.
ZacUK
Numista team
Joined: 3-Jan-2011
Posts: 12647
Posted: 17-May-2015, 21:15
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Posted: 17-May-2015, 21:15
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Welcome to the site.
KM = Krause-Mishler, and most can be found on this site ...
http://secure.numismaster.com/ta/numis.jsp
Then click on Find My Coin near top of page. And this site, which also has coin values ...
http://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/
On there I entered Australia All Regions Dollar 2007 and this was in results
http://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/australia-dollar-km-809-2007-cuid-151429-duid-361463
giving KM# 809
Composition: Aluminum-Bronze
Weight: 9.0000g
Diameter: 25mm
Obverse: Head with tiara right
Obverse Designer: Ian Rank-Broadley
Reverse: Pig
Reverse Designer: Vladimir Gottwald
Edge Description: Segmented reeding
Subject: Year of the Pig
Ruler: Elizabeth II
To add a coin >
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/contributions/nouveau.php
brismike
Numista team
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 1437
Posted: 18-May-2015, 03:07
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Posted: 18-May-2015, 03:07
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Thankyou ZacUK .. That was a great reply. The link to the Numismaster site is very helpful. I did find a couple of my coins on there that I couldn't find on here.
As I have mentioned I collect Australian coins but one of the problems with that is we have 2 mints in this country. The Royal Australian Mint in Canberra which produces all of the circulating definitive and circulating Commemoratives and quite a few Non-circulating Commemoratives which are exactly the same size and composition of the circulating coins. (Except for some silver and gold coins that I don't collect.)
The other mint is the Perth Mint which is located in Western Australia. They only produce what I would call Collector Coins. They are apparently legal tender but you would be crazy to try to use one that way. To me they are just toy coins and they constantly issue more and more of them. It is easy for someone to get confused between the Perth Mint coins and the RAM coins when looking thru all the KM numbers as they are all interspersed with each other numerically.
One coin I have that I can't find on either site is this one...2
2008 1 Dollar, Norman Lindsay Magic Pudding. 9gm, 25mm, Aluminium Bronze.
However there is a 2007 version of the same coin. The only difference is the year date.
The 2007 version is KM#829 .. would the 2008 coin have the same KM# number?
Anyway thanks again for helping me out.
cheers Mike
Referee for Australia & New Zealand Coins & Exonumia, Papua New Guinea & Cocos & Keeling Islands Coins & Australian Banknotes. I Collect > Australia, UK & Dependancies, NZ Sets, USA & Euros plus Misc Exonumia.
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 3784
Posted: 18-May-2015, 13:45
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Posted: 18-May-2015, 13:45
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Hmmm, strange. I can't even find that coin ( the 2008 nor the 2007) in the 2015 Standard Catalog of World coins by Krause although it has a KM# number.
But the last years it happens regularly (much to often) that it takes a long time before they reach the Catalog. But where comes that KM# number from then?
brismike
Numista team
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 1437
Posted: 29-May-2015, 13:35
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Posted: 29-May-2015, 13:35
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Hi Again ... I have been adding all of the Decimal Australian coins that are missing from the catalogue on Numista that I have in my collection. I have an extensive collection with almost every decimal Aussie coin ever issued.
I haven't finished adding them yet because there are a lot missing but when I have finished the Numista catalogue will be spot on.
How long does it take for someone to verify the coins? I do understand that someone has to check all the information that I have put in.
I have added three older $1 coins (a 2009, & 2 x 2012) that don't have a KM# number yet that I can't find anywhere but they should have one. They seem to have got missed so I hope that somehow they will get issued one. How is this determined? Who actually issues the KM# numbers and how are they alerted to coins they have missed?
When I add the latest 2014 and 2015 coins they won't have KM# numbers yet because they are too new. I'll still add them and when KM# numbers are issued I'll add them to the Numista catalogue.
I am really keen to sort out the mess that was the Australian Decimal Coins as issued by the Royal Australian Mint in the Numista Catalogue.
I hate those Perth mint coins though, they are awful, wrong size, wrong weight, toy looking coins. I'm not touching them at all.
Cheers Mike
Referee for Australia & New Zealand Coins & Exonumia, Papua New Guinea & Cocos & Keeling Islands Coins & Australian Banknotes. I Collect > Australia, UK & Dependancies, NZ Sets, USA & Euros plus Misc Exonumia.
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 12375
Posted: 16-Jun-2015, 16:26
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Posted: 16-Jun-2015, 16:26
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1 dollar 2009 (Centenary of Age Pension): km1498 (I have it)
1 dollar 2012 ( Citizenship): km1428 (I don't have it yet)
1 dollar 2012 ( Australian Wheat): km1626 (I don't have it yet)
The two 2012 coins are in www.numismaster.com
Ole
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
brismike
Numista team
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 1437
Posted: 16-Jun-2015, 17:02
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Posted: 16-Jun-2015, 17:02
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Quote: Sjoelund1 dollar 2009 (Centenary of Age Pension): km1498 (I have it)
1 dollar 2012 ( Citizenship): km1428 (I don't have it yet)
1 dollar 2012 ( Australian Wheat): km1626 (I don't have it yet)
The two 2012 coins are in www.numismaster.com
Ole
Thanks Ole ... The Coins I added to Numista without a KM# were these ones...
1 Dollar 2009 (200 Years of Australia Post) I have it
1 Dollar 2012 (Zoo Series Tree Kangaroo) I have it (The other 5 coins in the Zoo Series do have KM#'s
1 Dollar 2012 (AFL Premiers Sydney Swans) I have it
They still don't have a KM# that I can find anywhere .. They have been missed which is why I have updated the whole Australian list on Numista.
The coins you mentioned in your post above the KM# numbers are correct.
However KM1428 is a Perth Mint coin .. Not a real RAM coin, wrong size, wrong weight for a proper Australian Dollar coin.
.
The other 2 coins you listed I already have and I have updated their details in Numista.
Cheers Mike
Referee for Australia & New Zealand Coins & Exonumia, Papua New Guinea & Cocos & Keeling Islands Coins & Australian Banknotes. I Collect > Australia, UK & Dependancies, NZ Sets, USA & Euros plus Misc Exonumia.
swimmingly
Joined: 13-Sep-2008
Posts: 50
Posted: 16-Feb-2019, 16:44
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Posted: 16-Feb-2019, 16:44
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Here's a 2007 coin, still with no KM# in either latest catalog or NGC search website.
1 Dollar - Elizabeth II "Koala" Silver Bullion Coinage
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces20532.html
Can a person "nudge" KM somehow, for missed coins like this?
CassTaylor
Joined: 30-May-2014
Posts: 8551
Posted: 16-Feb-2019, 17:50
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Posted: 16-Feb-2019, 17:50
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Quote: "swimmingly"
Can a person "nudge" KM somehow, for missed coins like this?
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic78798.html
You could certainly try.....
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 12375
Posted: 16-Feb-2019, 18:16
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Posted: 16-Feb-2019, 18:16
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I have reported it to the SCWC, we'll see if it will show up in Numismaster later!
Ole
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
COINMAN1
Joined: 8-Jun-2013
Posts: 2696
Posted: 4-Mar-2019, 20:50
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Posted: 4-Mar-2019, 20:50
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Does anyone know how many coins, listed on Numista, do not have a KM# or other system number?
I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1
Idolenz
Joined: 13-Jul-2013
Posts: 6591
Posted: 4-Mar-2019, 22:30
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Posted: 4-Mar-2019, 22:30
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COINMAN1
Joined: 8-Jun-2013
Posts: 2696
Posted: 5-Mar-2019, 08:58
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Posted: 5-Mar-2019, 08:58
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I have over 600 modern coins without the KM#, but never thought it was as high as that.
I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 12375
Posted: 5-Mar-2019, 09:19
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Posted: 5-Mar-2019, 09:19
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Quote: "COINMAN1"I have over 600 modern coins without the KM#, but never thought it was as high as that.
Those are the coins without ANY catalog reference....
As you probably know, the KM# can only miss from 1601, but that's probably still a lot. Is there a way to find those?
Ole
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
brismike
Numista team
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 1437
Posted: 5-Mar-2019, 14:07
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Posted: 5-Mar-2019, 14:07
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Just looked at that list of all coins with missing KM#'s ... Australia alone has 671 with no KM# and I reckon I have added nearly half of that.
I don't think Krause will ever catch up. Just in 2018 the RAM put out 105 different coins, although some of them are the same coin with different mintmarks, privymarks or counterstamps.
And that is not including what the Perth Mint is doing either which pumps out NCLT like there is no tommorow.
Krause will die a death and websites like Numista which is able to update information in almost real time is the way of the future.
Cheers Mike
Referee for Australia & New Zealand Coins & Exonumia, Papua New Guinea & Cocos & Keeling Islands Coins & Australian Banknotes. I Collect > Australia, UK & Dependancies, NZ Sets, USA & Euros plus Misc Exonumia.
radrick007
Joined: 7-Feb-2011
Posts: 2874
Posted: 5-Mar-2019, 16:14
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Posted: 5-Mar-2019, 16:14
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Quote: "Sjoelund"
Quote: "COINMAN1"I have over 600 modern coins without the KM#, but never thought it was as high as that.
Those are the coins without ANY catalog reference....
As you probably know, the KM# can only miss from 1601, but that's probably still a lot. Is there a way to find those?
Ole
If you take that search produced by @Idolenz and insert '1601-2019' into the year field, it should return the number of KM#'s missing - over 9,200!
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon.
Coin catalogue referee for England, United Kingdom & pre-Union South Africa.
Banknote catalogue referee for England & United Kingdom.
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 12375
Posted: 5-Mar-2019, 17:15
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Posted: 5-Mar-2019, 17:15
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Quote: "radrick007"
Quote: "Sjoelund"
Quote: "COINMAN1"I have over 600 modern coins without the KM#, but never thought it was as high as that.
Those are the coins without ANY catalog reference....
As you probably know, the KM# can only miss from 1601, but that's probably still a lot. Is there a way to find those?
Ole
If you take that search produced by @Idolenz and insert '1601-2019' into the year field, it should return the number of KM#'s missing - over 9,200!
I did, thanks for the hint and I sent the result to Krause. I'll see what they say and copy it here, of course.
Ole
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
swimmingly
Joined: 13-Sep-2008
Posts: 50
Posted: 5-Mar-2019, 21:55
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Posted: 5-Mar-2019, 21:55
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Also note that some of the missing Krause numbers are by Numista choice.
For instance, these two coins are listed WITHOUT Krause numbers by Numista under Portugal,
while Krause lists them under Azores, WITH Krause numbers.
Krause Azores KM#43
Numista Portugal 25 Escudos (Azores Regional Autonomy) No KM#
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces11162.html
Krause Azores KM#45
Numista Portugal 100 Escudos (Regional Autonomy) No KM#
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces11797.html
There should be a field in our database to store "Rejected References" which would enable us to find such more easily.
brismike
Numista team
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 1437
Posted: 6-Mar-2019, 07:13
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Posted: 6-Mar-2019, 07:13
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Quote: "Idolenz"THIS many
When I run the above query that Idolenz came up with I get 13257 coins found.
That is 13257 coins that don't have a reference. It is a lot.
Mike
Referee for Australia & New Zealand Coins & Exonumia, Papua New Guinea & Cocos & Keeling Islands Coins & Australian Banknotes. I Collect > Australia, UK & Dependancies, NZ Sets, USA & Euros plus Misc Exonumia.
COINMAN1
Joined: 8-Jun-2013
Posts: 2696
Posted: 6-Mar-2019, 10:11
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Posted: 6-Mar-2019, 10:11
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I just entered 'missing' into the KM# box, and asked for 'in my collection', and it came up with 955.
Thought I would try using 'Y', but came up with same answer.
Checked through my list and apart from a Meissen 50 Pfennig coin from 1921, my earliest coins without a reference number are dated 1996, of which there are a few, with many others dated in the later 1990's. I thought even Krause would caught up with those.
This morning, I put 'missing' and 1996. I had 10 coins, but the system gave a total of 280. This is quite frightening as to how far Krause is behind.
Anyone any ideas why these and other 'modern' coins are not included?
I'm just a collector of coins, not a slave to it, unless I am in a coin shop.
For all you banknote collectors. Link to my swap list.
https://colnect.com/en/banknotes/list/swap_list/COINMAN1
coincoin.com
Joined: 18-Mar-2017
Posts: 29
Posted: 8-Mar-2019, 20:27
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Posted: 8-Mar-2019, 20:27
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Krause Publications used to have numerous staffers, but with changes in corporate ownership, aging and retirement of many key people, they are running now with a skeleton crew. Fred Borgmann used to be in charge of posting and numbering new issues, but he's long gone. I used to be a regular contributor to both the catalogs and World Coin News, but can't get replies from anyone there nowadays, on any topic, so good luck. The Y# system, which is still used in the KM catalogs for China and maybe a couple other countries, was much more carefully crafted (by Holland Wallace). At KP, Fred simply assigned numbers as he learned of new issues, with no attempt to organize them by issue or denomination, so SCWC numbering for the 1980s forward is not sensible anyway. What's needed is a sort of universal internet-based numbering system for all world coinages, with variable start dates by country and region, based on political consolidation and centralized control of coin issuance. In the past, collectors used to list and refer to coins regularly by their Y/C#, or KM#. It made communication and collection organization much easier. But since KP monopolized the field, decided to do by-century rather than by-region catalogs, poorly organized and formatted, and at $60 each, reference numbers are less often used. There's been an explosion in research and publication of in-depth by-country references, so more professional auctions and dealers use those reference numbers, which less advanced collectors will not understand. So, who's going to start that Universal Coin Reference project? (he says, while quietly closing the door behind himself)
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