mattressesaregood
Joined: 10-Apr-2015
Posts: 156
Posted: 6-Jun-2015, 22:34
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Posted: 6-Jun-2015, 22:34
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Kuna
Joined: 18-Feb-2013
Posts: 873
Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 00:36
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Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 00:36
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Actually it is in Numista
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces63966.html but listed under tokens section. I have no idea why, and I think it should be near other circulating coins.
Check my doubles. ;)
DonChori
Joined: 8-May-2012
Posts: 947
Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 01:09
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Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 01:09
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Seems to be a fantasy issue. Not circulating and not produced with permission of the Central Bank. There are quite a few of those coins from other African countries, most (or all?) of them produced in China.
I'm not orange and also in other things I'm not a Donald at all. DonChori like Don Felipe or Doña María, por favor.
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 3784
Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 01:32
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Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 01:32
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I think it's in the token section because it hasn't a #KM number yet. Unless someone has more information about it? Dato Mikeladze perhaps?
Let's wait for the future Krause editions to see if it is a real coin or a fantasy. Krause is regularly several years behind.
mattressesaregood
Joined: 10-Apr-2015
Posts: 156
Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 07:50
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Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 07:50
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Quote: KunaActually it is in Numista https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces63966.html but listed under tokens section. I have no idea why, and I think it should be near other circulating coins.
Thank you
Dato Mikeladze
Joined: 25-Mar-2014
Posts: 2390
Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 17:00
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Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 17:00
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hello, dear friends
As Rwanda use Francs, and not Shillings, its official logo is RWF, and not RWS.
So, there is a quite real reason to put it into the token section.
But, as there is no any proof that this one made in China, or any proof that it may be a fake coin/ token, we can also another, fair opinion, - that probably there was made a mistake at the Mint where this coins ( 20 RWF) were minted. Because this coin made in large quantity, it has a very nice faces of both sides, , nice shape, and looks like strucked at quite good technology Mintplace, at least it looks like better than Sudanese, Indian, and many other coins which were struck at lefgal Mints.
anyway, - there is only reason - Rwanda use francs, and not shillings, so it cannot circulate in Rwanda , so they went to the tokens here
. Other - decide yourself
Lotus07
Joined: 3-Aug-2012
Posts: 1221
Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 19:18
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Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 19:18
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"For by telling them of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to know much, while for the most part they know nothing"
-Plato
Dato Mikeladze
Joined: 25-Mar-2014
Posts: 2390
Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 19:57
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Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 19:57
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Quote: Lotus07as an extra confirmation:
http://news.euoa.net/rwanda-20-shillings-2011-new-fantasy-type-7720.html#
This is a private blog of David Rivera - he is a good friend of mine, as well as Wolfgang Schuster. He says same - nobody yet cannot say that these coins came from China. Its just assumption, which is not confirmed by at least one collector . No matter - are they from China or somwhere else, - I mean that there is no exact proof that they are fake/fantasy , and not mint errors. Because all we know mint errors, which are more and more imaginable than this S insted of F . Today, when any strange stuff first of all associates with chinese fake, we even dont want to believe that maybe they are just mint errors. For example, if nowdays we found Egyptian 10 piastres with UNICFE on it instead of UNICEF, all of us immediately say - " hah ! Made in China !" . Maybe Im too romantic
but , again, I dont have YET any official confirmation about "fantasy" origins of this coin
mattressesaregood
Joined: 10-Apr-2015
Posts: 156
Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 23:41
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Posted: 7-Jun-2015, 23:41
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Quote: Dato MikeladzeQuote: Lotus07as an extra confirmation:
http://news.euoa.net/rwanda-20-shillings-2011-new-fantasy-type-7720.html#
This is a private blog of David Rivera - he is a good friend of mine, as well as Wolfgang Schuster. He says same - nobody yet cannot say that these coins came from China. Its just assumption, which is not confirmed by at least one collector . No matter - are they from China or somwhere else, - I mean that there is no exact proof that they are fake/fantasy , and not mint errors. Because all we know mint errors, which are more and more imaginable than this S insted of F . Today, when any strange stuff first of all associates with chinese fake, we even dont want to believe that maybe they are just mint errors. For example, if nowdays we found Egyptian 10 piastres with UNICFE on it instead of UNICEF, all of us immediately say - " hah ! Made in China !" . Maybe Im too romantic but , again, I dont have YET any official confirmation about "fantasy" origins of this coin
Yes, but there were also no other Rwandan circulating coins minted in 2011.
Dato Mikeladze
Joined: 25-Mar-2014
Posts: 2390
Posted: 8-Jun-2015, 00:55
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Posted: 8-Jun-2015, 00:55
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Quote: mattressesaregoodQuote: Dato MikeladzeQuote: Lotus07as an extra confirmation:
http://news.euoa.net/rwanda-20-shillings-2011-new-fantasy-type-7720.html#
This is a private blog of David Rivera - he is a good friend of mine, as well as Wolfgang Schuster. He says same - nobody yet cannot say that these coins came from China. Its just assumption, which is not confirmed by at least one collector . No matter - are they from China or somwhere else, - I mean that there is no exact proof that they are fake/fantasy , and not mint errors. Because all we know mint errors, which are more and more imaginable than this S insted of F . Today, when any strange stuff first of all associates with chinese fake, we even dont want to believe that maybe they are just mint errors. For example, if nowdays we found Egyptian 10 piastres with UNICFE on it instead of UNICEF, all of us immediately say - " hah ! Made in China !" . Maybe Im too romantic but , again, I dont have YET any official confirmation about "fantasy" origins of this coin
Yes, but there were also no other Rwandan circulating coins minted in 2011.
There is no another, correct type of Egypt 5 piastres, with correct UNICEF as well
Lotus07
Joined: 3-Aug-2012
Posts: 1221
Posted: 8-Jun-2015, 07:55
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Posted: 8-Jun-2015, 07:55
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I just looked up Rwanda's current circulation coins and they have quite a lot of details in common with that so-called counterfeit 20 shilling coin. I also don't see why you would counterfeit such a low denomination coin. Perhaps it is a real coin, but the mint where this coin was minted made some mistakes on the lettering of the coin. I can imagine that since Rwanda is a small country they let their coins struck at a foreign mint. Maybe they changed their regular mint in 2011 for another mint that claimed to be cheaper and as a result they accidently minted coins with the wrong lettering...
"For by telling them of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to know much, while for the most part they know nothing"
-Plato
Dato Mikeladze
Joined: 25-Mar-2014
Posts: 2390
Posted: 8-Jun-2015, 09:00
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Posted: 8-Jun-2015, 09:00
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Quote: Lotus07I just looked up Rwanda's current circulation coins and they have quite a lot of details in common with that so-called counterfeit 20 shilling coin. I also don't see why you would counterfeit such a low denomination coin. Perhaps it is a real coin, but the mint where this coin was minted made some mistakes on the lettering of the coin. I can imagine that since Rwanda is a small country they let their coins struck at a foreign mint. Maybe they changed their regular mint in 2011 for another mint that claimed to be cheaper and as a result they accidently minted coins with the wrong lettering...
There are some reasons, and main is to earn easy money. This "coin" was sold for $ 4-5 first time, then $3, now - about $ 2. Imagine how much money the could earn! Even in the first month normal circulation 20 RWF couldnot cost so much money. $1 - best price, hope you agreee.
Best example of it - "monkey money" from Madagaskar, gambia, and so on. Which were made in China for 100%, as Schon catalog ( and Schon is very respected source) says. They are very low denomination money, but whole set was sold for $ 30 , and even now, each coin price is about $ 3 :)
But, while we dont have exact proof that Rwanda coins made in China, all these talks are just wind in the field
best
D.
DonChori
Joined: 8-May-2012
Posts: 947
Posted: 8-Jun-2015, 10:32
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Posted: 8-Jun-2015, 10:32
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Even in Africa they won't use a coin with a totally wrong denomination. It could be possible if there was only the error regarding RWF and RWS. But another "error" inventing a totally new name of the currency is absurd. No Central Bank will release a coin with this mistake to circulation in any country. In my opinion it's a clear case.
I'm not orange and also in other things I'm not a Donald at all. DonChori like Don Felipe or Doña María, por favor.
Dato Mikeladze
Joined: 25-Mar-2014
Posts: 2390
Posted: 8-Jun-2015, 11:17
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Posted: 8-Jun-2015, 11:17
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Quote: DonChoriEven in Africa they won't use a coin with a totally wrong denomination. It could be possible if there was only the error regarding RWF and RWS. But another "error" inventing a totally new name of the currency is absurd. No Central Bank will release a coin with this mistake to circulation in any country. In my opinion it's a clear case.
AMASHILINGI
mattressesaregood
Joined: 10-Apr-2015
Posts: 156
Posted: 14-Jun-2015, 22:22
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Posted: 14-Jun-2015, 22:22
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It seems improbable, but could this coin circulate in Rwanda?
mattressesaregood
Joined: 10-Apr-2015
Posts: 156
Posted: 15-Jun-2015, 04:27
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Posted: 15-Jun-2015, 04:27
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it looks like the 100 Franc coin other than RWF/RWS and from the other side it could be easily seen as a 20 Francs coin
Edit: Never mind, it is significantly bigger. It could not circulate in Rwanda as a 20 RWF coin.
jokinen
Joined: 10-Feb-2013
Posts: 1858
Posted: 15-Jun-2015, 07:20
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Posted: 15-Jun-2015, 07:20
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I heard there are plans for an East African Monetary Union comprising Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi using the Shilling. Maybe that has something to do with it.
But no way Rwandans pay with Shillings right now.
mattressesaregood
Joined: 10-Apr-2015
Posts: 156
Posted: 15-Jun-2015, 16:58
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Posted: 15-Jun-2015, 16:58
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Alessandro1918
Joined: 9-Apr-2014
Posts: 12
Posted: 3-Nov-2017, 05:02
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Posted: 3-Nov-2017, 05:02
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Updating the post here:
I also bought one of those on eBay, without knowing it was a fantasy issue (seller was from China, btw). I noticed this post is years old, but I thought it was worth it to add the few news I found about it...
As of now, wikipedia has a small article about the "new East African shilling":
"
A new version of the currency is proposed by the East African Community, which consists of Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, and South Sudan. It had been proposed that the Second East African shilling be introduced into circulation in 2012, but the target was not met. A second target date was set to 2015, but also not met. The third target date is 2024.".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_African_shilling#Second_East_African_shilling
My coin, and another example still on sale on eBay, are all dated 2011, apparently to "comply" with the first target. So, as far as I can tell, this is not even a token, as it doesn't do the role of alternate currency for goods, transportation, public telephone booths or even souvenirs. It's just fake money trying to pass as a new currency.
Wrapping up: the link of David Rivera's blog mentioned above is broken; I found a similar one, but with pretty much no news:
http://worldcoinnews.blogspot.com.br/2014/08/rwanda-20-francs-2011-new-type.html
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