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tappanee
Joined: 9-Mar-2012
Posts: 136
Hi does the 1969 Two Scilling Coin exist?
I have the 1969 10p

Cheers All
SRoweCollection
Joined: 8-Jul-2015
Posts: 343
Yep it does:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=1969+Two+Scilling+Coin
"In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed"
-Jack Churchill, on his assault of a Nazi german camp riding a motorcycle with his bow and arrows, scottish claymore and bagpipes
tappanee
Joined: 9-Mar-2012
Posts: 136
Hi

Its  not shown here

http://www.irishcoinage.com/MODCAT.HTM#modfln
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 2224
According to the 2015 Krause (42th edition) the 1969 exists:



These websites say the same:

http://typesets.wikidot.com/ireland:florin

http://en.ucoin.net/table/?country=ireland&period=332
tappanee
Joined: 9-Mar-2012
Posts: 136
Thanks for that

Anybody got a photo of one to put my mind at rest

Cheers All
SRoweCollection
Joined: 8-Jul-2015
Posts: 343
Well unless the world book of coins there lies, I'm pretty sure it exists.
"In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed"
-Jack Churchill, on his assault of a Nazi german camp riding a motorcycle with his bow and arrows, scottish claymore and bagpipes
Fluke
Joined: 22-Mar-2015
Posts: 1864
Cant say I know of 1969 being minted as a Florin, I have only seen the 1969 as a 10p

So I get what the OP is saying. It sure is in the list but it must be extremely rare if it exists and I cant find reference to it in image format.
Restoration addict : Verdigris Removal : Zinc White spot removal : Iron Rust Removal : Silver brooch/necklace mount Removal
radrick007
Joined: 7-Feb-2011
Posts: 2346
Let's all be reminded that Krause SCWC is full of errors so just because they list the '69 Florin doesn't mean it exists and the fact that they have no mintage listed is the first indicator that there is some doubt. Also, the Type Set site contradicts itself; in their "Quick Facts" they list the years minted as 1928-69 but in their introduction they indicate that the Two Scilling was produced from 1928 to 1968. So it would seem that there is a genuine doubt that the '69 Florin does exist, especially since IrishCoinage.com says it wasn't issued, but if anyone has a photo of one then we stand to be corrected!
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon

Catalogue referee for Celtic Britain, England, United Kingdom, New Zealand & Pre-Union South Africa
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 2224
https://en.numista.com/echanges/liste.php?piece=1401

One of our members has the coin in his exchange list!
SRoweCollection
Joined: 8-Jul-2015
Posts: 343
An honest member, too, so it clearly exists!
"In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed"
-Jack Churchill, on his assault of a Nazi german camp riding a motorcycle with his bow and arrows, scottish claymore and bagpipes
radrick007
Joined: 7-Feb-2011
Posts: 2346
Before we jump to any assumptions, I have PM'd the member in question and asked if he would mind posting a photo of his coin, just in case there has been a genuine mistake somewhere.
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon

Catalogue referee for Celtic Britain, England, United Kingdom, New Zealand & Pre-Union South Africa
minor
Joined: 22-Nov-2012
Posts: 63
Hi All
Unfortunately the coin I have listed as a 2 Flóirin is a 10 Pingin so I have no 2 Flóirin from 1969 ... :(
Regards Torben
There are several ways to skin a cat... but only one for the cat..
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 2224
I checked the collections of all our 7 Irish members but nobody has the coin (or the collection wasn't visible).
I looked at the wrong place for the link to our members (I thought it was on the homepage but there only is the amount of members but without a link so I assumed the link wasn't active anymore).
So in stead I checked the collections of the 9 members with the highest swaplist. The result was the same, no coin or the collection wasn't visible.
I know Sjoelund has a huge collection (+35.000 coins) and collects by date, but even he hasn't got the coin.
So I almost gave up till I found the right link to our members and then I found erniemix:



But it must be a rare coin. I checked the 5 members with the highest amount of coins and only erniemix has it.
But if it's not a mistake on his list, the coin exists! So now we need a picture of his coin.
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 2224
Who seeks shall find: baffolo75 also has the coin:



The coin is even in his exchange list. So it's strange it's not visible here: https://en.numista.com/echanges/liste.php?piece=1401

Also PatGav has the coin:



At least 3 members have the coin. They can't be all made a mistake, so I think we can decide that the Ireland 1969 florin certainly exists, even without a picture of it. But of course, a picture would be very nice after this quest.
SRoweCollection
Joined: 8-Jul-2015
Posts: 343
Argh, I thought I might have one. I have a 1968 florin (not that I collect them, I dont' have a full set. Oh well.)
"In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed"
-Jack Churchill, on his assault of a Nazi german camp riding a motorcycle with his bow and arrows, scottish claymore and bagpipes
radrick007
Joined: 7-Feb-2011
Posts: 2346
Quote: minorHi All
Unfortunately the coin I have listed as a 2 Flóirin is a 10 Pingin so I have no 2 Flóirin from 1969 ... :(
Regards Torben
Hi Torben and thank you for your swift response, you have helped eliminate your coin from the investigation.

Essor Prof, that's a good bit of detective work you have done and certainly there is a suggestion that this coin may exist but as you quite rightly indicate, we can't conclude the investigation until we can document photographic evidence. Are you happy to follow up on your leads and message the members in question?
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon

Catalogue referee for Celtic Britain, England, United Kingdom, New Zealand & Pre-Union South Africa
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 2224
Hahaha, I hoped you already have sent the messages like you did to Torben. I'm already busy with detective work on an other request.
But as you said, a picture of the Irish coin would be the final conclusion.
radrick007
Joined: 7-Feb-2011
Posts: 2346
Ha!Ha! Well done! OK, challenge accepted, PMs sent (including one in Italian and one in French)  :D
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon

Catalogue referee for Celtic Britain, England, United Kingdom, New Zealand & Pre-Union South Africa
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 2224
Wonderful. I hope they react as soon as Torben did so there is no doubt anymore.
Hahaha, because my doubt is rising now. I just checked if I would have the coin myself although my European collection is far from up to date for the moment (still a lot of unsorted coins) and I just discovered that in the last Krause catalog I have before the split up in centuries (edition 2006), the florin 1969 was NOT in Krause! So a picture would be very nice, indeed.
radrick007
Joined: 7-Feb-2011
Posts: 2346
I received a reply this morning from my good friend PatGav to say that he does not have the '69 and can't quite understand why it appeared on his list. It looks like baffolo75 may have been inactive for some time and neither he nor erniemix have yet read my PM. Let's give it a little while longer before arriving at any conclusions.
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon

Catalogue referee for Celtic Britain, England, United Kingdom, New Zealand & Pre-Union South Africa
SRoweCollection
Joined: 8-Jul-2015
Posts: 343
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Ireland-Florins-1955-1964-1969-1971-1974-1975-/171860170568?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2803aa1748

Conclusive evidence!
"In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed"
-Jack Churchill, on his assault of a Nazi german camp riding a motorcycle with his bow and arrows, scottish claymore and bagpipes
BizzoDoes
Joined: 22-Jan-2014
Posts: 996
Quote: SRoweCollectionhttp://www.ebay.fr/itm/Ireland-Florins-1955-1964-1969-1971-1974-1975-/171860170568?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2803aa1748

Conclusive evidence!
Here, the 1969 is a 10p, only the 55 and 64 are Florins.
http://www.facebook.com/NumismaticsUK
I'm not an expert in any kind of coins, but I reckon I'm good at research and will do my best to help. Feel free to tell me my identifications/valuations/gradings are wrong. It's the only way I'll learn.
SRoweCollection
Joined: 8-Jul-2015
Posts: 343
Ah, a conman then.
"In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed"
-Jack Churchill, on his assault of a Nazi german camp riding a motorcycle with his bow and arrows, scottish claymore and bagpipes
BizzoDoes
Joined: 22-Jan-2014
Posts: 996
All these links state that 1968 was the last Irish Florin:
http://www.irishcoinage.com/MODCOIN.HTM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florin_(Irish_coin)
http://oldcurrencyexchange.com/2015/03/06/coin-guide-irish-pre-decimal-irish-florin/
http://www.facebook.com/NumismaticsUK
I'm not an expert in any kind of coins, but I reckon I'm good at research and will do my best to help. Feel free to tell me my identifications/valuations/gradings are wrong. It's the only way I'll learn.
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 2224
Very strange indeed, the mystery stays.
I checked further in the Numista member list with the highest amount of coins. I checked the top 40 and I found another one, someone we see here regularly on the forum: numismaticroy:



I hope he finally can bring a solution to are quest.
radrick007
Joined: 7-Feb-2011
Posts: 2346
OK, PM sent (we should set up a double act, maybe a TV detective series!)  :O
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon

Catalogue referee for Celtic Britain, England, United Kingdom, New Zealand & Pre-Union South Africa
SRoweCollection
Joined: 8-Jul-2015
Posts: 343
Coin hunters... Could be interesting.
"In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed"
-Jack Churchill, on his assault of a Nazi german camp riding a motorcycle with his bow and arrows, scottish claymore and bagpipes
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 2224
All we need now is a happy end.
Hopefully numismaticroy can take care of that.
neilithic
Joined: 28-Mar-2011
Posts: 7493
This catalogue lists the last date as 1968

http://www.irishcoinage.com/MODCAT.HTM#modfln
Fluke
Joined: 22-Mar-2015
Posts: 1864
There is no 1969 with "Florin" as the obverse, they were switched to the 10p which was also referred to as a two shilling, the catalogue error spelling is horrific, "Scilling?"

any member lists that show them having a 1969 Florin will be the 10p obverse, catalogue error.
Restoration addict : Verdigris Removal : Zinc White spot removal : Iron Rust Removal : Silver brooch/necklace mount Removal
SRoweCollection
Joined: 8-Jul-2015
Posts: 343
That is the Irish spelling Fluke.
"In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed"
-Jack Churchill, on his assault of a Nazi german camp riding a motorcycle with his bow and arrows, scottish claymore and bagpipes
kolikko99
Joined: 6-Jun-2014
Posts: 1233
IKR ireland belongs to the uk! English is the real language of ireland! (Just joking)
radrick007
Joined: 7-Feb-2011
Posts: 2346
So I've had a response from Roy and he has kindly taken the time to search his coins (not an inconsiderable task I should imagine, with a collection of that size). He has been able to confirm that he does not have the '69 2 Scilling (yes, Fluke, otherwise known as a Floirin).
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon

Catalogue referee for Celtic Britain, England, United Kingdom, New Zealand & Pre-Union South Africa
OldCurrencyExchange
Joined: 29-Jul-2015
Posts: 110
The 1969 two schilling definitely does not exist.

I am very surprised to see it listed in Krause.

In 1969, the Royal Mint in London began to mint new decimal 10p coins ahead of the planned Decimal Day launch in February 1971.

The last two shilling coin (or florin, as we call them here in Ireland) was minted in 1968.

The only pre-decimal coin minted in 1969 was the old sixpence (reul).

I hope this clears matters up.
http://oldcurrencyexchange.com/2015/03/06/coin-guide-irish-pre-decimal-irish-florin/
 
radrick007
Joined: 7-Feb-2011
Posts: 2346
Quote: OldCurrencyExchangeThe 1969 two schilling definitely does not exist.

I am very surprised to see it listed in Krause.

In 1969, the Royal Mint in London began to mint new decimal 10p coins ahead of the planned Decimal Day launch in February 1971.

The last two shilling coin (or florin, as we call them here in Ireland) was minted in 1968.

The only pre-decimal coin minted in 1969 was the old sixpence (reul).

I hope this clears matters up.
http://oldcurrencyexchange.com/2015/03/06/coin-guide-irish-pre-decimal-irish-florin/
Hello and welcome to Numista. Thanks also for your contribution which only serves to confirm what most of us here suspected but it will help as further evidence that we can provide to our catalogue referees to have the '69 entry removed from the Numista listing. I believe there are also members here that are registered with Numismaster.com who may be able to make the necessary request to Krause to have their records updated. A big thank you to everyone that has contributed to this investigation.
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon

Catalogue referee for Celtic Britain, England, United Kingdom, New Zealand & Pre-Union South Africa
OldCurrencyExchange
Joined: 29-Jul-2015
Posts: 110


When comparing the obverse of the Irish 1968 florin and the obverse of the 1969 (decimal) ten pence coins, look at the rim - the decimal coins have no beading.

This should 'quickly' identify coins from 1969 onwards.
Fluke
Joined: 22-Mar-2015
Posts: 1864
I stand corrected, took a bit of persuasive google searching to find that out.  z)
Restoration addict : Verdigris Removal : Zinc White spot removal : Iron Rust Removal : Silver brooch/necklace mount Removal
redsmithstudios
Joined: 20-Dec-2010
Posts: 2740
This was interesting , I hope we can here back from the other members, I am sure they will be surprised to find out there coins are decmal. However if one for some reason existed it would be worth a pretty florin.

 
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!

Looking for pre 1783 coins
radrick007
Joined: 7-Feb-2011
Posts: 2346
Quote: Essor ProfI checked the collections of all our 7 Irish members but nobody has the coin (or the collection wasn't visible).
I looked at the wrong place for the link to our members (I thought it was on the homepage but there only is the amount of members but without a link so I assumed the link wasn't active anymore).
So in stead I checked the collections of the 9 members with the highest swaplist. The result was the same, no coin or the collection wasn't visible.
I know Sjoelund has a huge collection (+35.000 coins) and collects by date, but even he hasn't got the coin.
So I almost gave up till I found the right link to our members and then I found erniemix:



But it must be a rare coin. I checked the 5 members with the highest amount of coins and only erniemix has it.
But if it's not a mistake on his list, the coin exists! So now we need a picture of his coin.
I've just seen a reply from erniemix and he confirmed that he does not have the coin but he did provide me with a contact at Krause so I can pass on the findings of our little inquest. Also, baffolo75 has not yet read my message of 2 days ago.
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon

Catalogue referee for Celtic Britain, England, United Kingdom, New Zealand & Pre-Union South Africa
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 2224
What worries me is the many mistakes there made in the collection lists about this coin. 5 members had this coin in their list. Subsequently it turns out that at least 4 out of these 5 made a mistake (and the fifth hasn't opened his message).
Hopefully we don't have to generalize this for every coin in the personal databases.
For the record, although I try to be so conscientiously and precautious as possible, I already discovered several mistakes of my own, so I know how difficult it is to make no mistakes.
OldCurrencyExchange
Joined: 29-Jul-2015
Posts: 110


This image does not contain a 1969 florin - it is a 1969 decimal 10p coin.

- Florins have "beading" around the edges - as per my last post.
- The decimal 10p coins do not.

So, SRoweCollection has proven that the 1969 coin in the eBay image is a 1969 decimal 10p coin
Look closely at the image - pre-1969 coins all have beading around the edges, whereas from 1969 onward, the coins have no beading, i.e. they are decimal 10p coins.

The 1969 coin in the eBay image is clearly a 10p coin, not a florin !!!
OldCurrencyExchange
Joined: 29-Jul-2015
Posts: 110
Another avenue of enquiry to consider is the specialist Irish coin album suppliers.

The Dansco album for florins and halfcrowns contains no space for a 1969 florin
Unfortunately, I am out of stock on this album, so I cannot supply an image of the page

The 'green' Whitman folders for Irish florins contains no space for a 1969  florin
The list of album types also confirms that the 'sixpence' was the only Irish 'pre-decimal' coin minted in 1969

https://books.google.ie/books?id=fGpzPvuNDy8C&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=ireland+coin+folders+green&source=bl&ots=c0KD9-ENE8&sig=oMgk9ATOknWMTYs5l8sRKuwtI_k&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDkQ6AEwBGoVChMIjoa_7ouBxwIVSTnbCh3z6gg9#v=onepage&q=ireland%20coin%20folders%20green&f=false

Interestingly, this green Whitman folder sold on eBay has no space for the 1968 florin either.
It might be a slightly earlier edition.
http://www.adverts.ie/coins/irish-florin-2-shilling-coin-collection-1928-to-1966/7436118

The Irish Coin Library also issued a set of 3 folders
The third folder in the set of 3, contains spaces for for florins (1928-1968) and halfcrowns (1928-1967)
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 2224
Quote: OldCurrencyExchange

This image does not contain a 1969 florin - it is a 1969 decimal 10p coin.

- Florins have "beading" around the edges - as per my last post.
- The decimal 10p coins do not.

So, SRoweCollection has proven that the 1969 coin in the eBay image is a 1969 decimal 10p coin
Look closely at the image - pre-1969 coins all have beading around the edges, whereas from 1969 onward, the coins have no beading, i.e. they are decimal 10p coins.

The 1969 coin in the eBay image is clearly a 10p coin, not a florin !!!

I think you overlooked a post. That conclusion about that ebay sell was already made a day earlier (see the post of BizzoDoes on 28-Jul-2015, 03:21 PM:

Quote: BizzoDoes
Quote: SRoweCollectionhttp://www.ebay.fr/itm/Ireland-Florins-1955-1964-1969-1971-1974-1975-/171860170568?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2803aa1748

Conclusive evidence!
Here, the 1969 is a 10p, only the 55 and 64 are Florins.
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 2224
Quote: OldCurrencyExchangeAnother avenue of enquiry to consider is the specialist Irish coin album suppliers.

The Dansco album for florins and halfcrowns contains no space for a 1969 florin
Unfortunately, I am out of stock on this album, so I cannot supply an image of the page

The 'green' Whitman folders for Irish florins contains no space for a 1969  florin
The list of album types also confirms that the 'sixpence' was the only Irish 'pre-decimal' coin minted in 1969

https://books.google.ie/books?id=fGpzPvuNDy8C&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=ireland+coin+folders+green&source=bl&ots=c0KD9-ENE8&sig=oMgk9ATOknWMTYs5l8sRKuwtI_k&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDkQ6AEwBGoVChMIjoa_7ouBxwIVSTnbCh3z6gg9#v=onepage&q=ireland%20coin%20folders%20green&f=false

Interestingly, this green Whitman folder sold on eBay has no space for the 1968 florin either.
It might be a slightly earlier edition.
http://www.adverts.ie/coins/irish-florin-2-shilling-coin-collection-1928-to-1966/7436118

The Irish Coin Library also issued a set of 3 folders
The third folder in the set of 3, contains spaces for for florins (1928-1968) and halfcrowns (1928-1967)
I think meanwhile we're all convinced that a 1969 florin doesn't exist and it's just another mistake in the Krause listing.
OldCurrencyExchange
Joined: 29-Jul-2015
Posts: 110
In fairness to Krause, they are publishing a catalogue for every coin in the world from 1601 forward - there is always going to be mistakes on an undertaking like that.  

Understandably, most collectors will take their listings are being correct, so it is equally understandable that a few collectors will base their lists on Krause.

I like the way people are encouraged to "produce a photo" and the debate was lively, polite and enjoyable - a sign of a mature hobby

Keep up the good work guys !   :D
BMPJ
Joined: 10-Jun-2015
Posts: 84
Sorry to have added to the confusion.

I got this coin in a swap and it was listed as a  1 Flóirin / 2 Scilling KM# 15a
1969. However it is the 10 Pingin. My last 2Scilling is from 1968.  

It does not seem that the 1969 2 Scilling exists. It would have been nice to have gotten it!
radrick007
Joined: 7-Feb-2011
Posts: 2346
I've just had a reply from baffolo75 who apologised for the delay, saying he is not on Numista much these days, but he did promise to send a photo when he got a chance so we shall have to wait and see ...
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon

Catalogue referee for Celtic Britain, England, United Kingdom, New Zealand & Pre-Union South Africa
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 2224
Hahaha, or to apologize he made a mistake too and he hasn't got the coin.
radrick007
Joined: 7-Feb-2011
Posts: 2346
Quote: Essor ProfHahaha, or to apologize he made a mistake too and he hasn't got the coin.
Full marks to yourself Essor Prof, I've had a response from baffolo75 to say he has checked his coin and it is the 10 Pingin. I have also posted a modification request in the catalogue forum but received no response, probably due in part to the fact there is no referee for Ireland. I have now forwarded the request to Xavier (site admin) to request his assistance.
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon

Catalogue referee for Celtic Britain, England, United Kingdom, New Zealand & Pre-Union South Africa
radrick007
Joined: 7-Feb-2011
Posts: 2346
Hello tappanee, Essor Prof and everyone else that contributed to this thread. Just by way of an epilogue, I am delighted to report that Xavier has now made the requested modification to the catalogue:

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1401.html

Thanks to everyone that helped, I think we can all be satisfied with a job well done. I don't know about you but I'm going to have a couple of beers and a nice cigar when I get home  ;)
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon

Catalogue referee for Celtic Britain, England, United Kingdom, New Zealand & Pre-Union South Africa
bam777
Joined: 5-Aug-2011
Posts: 4414
Quote: radrick007Hello tappanee, Essor Prof and everyone else that contributed to this thread. Just by way of an epilogue, I am delighted to report that Xavier has now made the requested modification to the catalogue:

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1401.html

Thanks to everyone that helped, I think we can all be satisfied with a job well done. I don't know about you but I'm going to have a couple of beers and a nice cigar when I get home  ;)
The Man himself. I was pleased to see this Rick. You are a very valued member of the site. Thank you.
pnightingale
Joined: 27-Jul-2011
Posts: 5245
Yes, good job everyone.
Non illegitimis carborundum est.  Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!  
GSDykes
Joined: 12-Feb-2015
Posts: 9
Great work and determination. It increases the validity of Numista. I have 24 posts to go to be able to enter a contest. s i g h.:D
Mr. G. S. Dykes
ANA #3179303
WBCC #578
SatantaH
Joined: 21-Feb-2020
Posts: 1
Yeah it does, not a very valuable year mind you. Ireland Coins website details the value and how to recognise it.
Irish Florin 1951 - 1969
Mr. Midnight
Joined: 10-Mar-2017
Posts: 1176
Quote: "SatantaH"​Yeah it does, not a very valuable year mind you. Ireland Coins website details the value and how to recognise it.
Irish Florin 1951 - 1969

​welcome to Numista
many smart folks on here you will like. I have bookmarked your website since about three years. thanks for your good work.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac

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