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I dont think OP's normally delete their posts nor they have the "admin rights" to do so.

We had a post about a potential scammer which I was one of the persons affected, now there were some numista members tempted to swap with him or that actually agreed to swap like me and this is how many people can be aware of this type of users.... the notification and warning banners only on top of the members profile are not so effective when other users can understand the pattern some of this scammers works.

1. small swaps (regionally) to build some trust
2. swap lists with not so common coins (or that are not so common in the numista swaps)
3. 5 stars rating is overrated YES, I do give 5 stars but I doubt this systems work

Some of the active swappers chasing newcomers should have pick this, YES there are members here checking on a daily basis for newcomers and take their coins quick and fast (are you so naive to have known this since long time ago?)

I will not carry on and see what others have to say, but for me this is another alarm and good opportunity to hybernate from numista...
JustforFun...
Once again I feel that I am being called out as a scammer supporter.

The he thread violated several forum rules. The case of the scammer mentioned has been opened and people need to flag a scammer early.

Successful scammers make make many good swaps and then set up multiple swaps and collect on them and poof...they're gone.

We do need more protection and ways of setting warnings.
Ben, l do appreciate your hard work, however l do believe that we need a way to keep posts like that up. Perhaps you could reinstate the thread, and delete the parts that violate rules? Instead of deleting the entire thing.
I think these posts are the most valuable tool to warn new people.
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!

Looking for pre 1783 coins
Quote: "bam777"​Once again I feel that I am being called out as a scammer supporter.

​The he thread violated several forum rules. The case of the scammer mentioned has been opened and people need to flag a scammer early.

​Successful scammers make make many good swaps and then set up multiple swaps and collect on them and poof...they're gone.

​We do need more protection and ways of setting warnings.
​Ben, I have not had the chance to swap or interact with you in the past but I know you are highly respected in Numista, in no way this post was made directly to you and my topic is in plural.... for that reason as there are many moderators / admins, etc, actually I dont know how many and who does what as Xavier can do whatever he wants on his site.

But going back to one of my paragraph... we have a lot of users actively looking to swap with new members and they are the ones taking the risk (in order to get what they want), they should be able to recognize this behaviors... as we are the ones who have to deal with them on normal terms... as they have pass their first 10-15 or whatever firsts swaps we all have in mind are necessary to waive the you send first unwritten rule.

I dont know other fastest way as of now, but together we could come with some recommendations that could be implemented in the site for the benefit of everyone.

Sorry if you read it in a way that might mislead to whom I am addressing this issue.
JustforFun...
My first recommendation will be that for every month or 3 swaps completed a new member is allowed to initiate a swap.

We all can take the risk, but they are restricted to initiate multiple swaps... that way can be controlled, other members can propose different ratios on swaps etc.... this is my two cents for a permanent solution to this problem that is affecting everyone and the reputation of the site as well.
JustforFun...
The trouble with the Has anyone else...posts is that the member gets named, addresses sometimes get mentioned in feedback, screenshots of conversation gets mentioned.

I have to actively edit the posts...then in doing so, it no longer makes sense, then it needs changing to make more sense.

I would like to see a black bar appear for members below par. That would definitely demonstrate that the member is no good.

I would still like a black list...but I know that contravenes French laws.

Anyway, thanks for your comments. If I could easily cut and shut a thread I would. Considering the member in question is no longer active, I have logged his account and will make a search to see if he has appeared under another name.
Can Numista cross reference member addresses and put your black bar you are talking about on known unethical people? This would prevent people known to take advantage from just starting another account with a different name, but the same address. At some point it will be more difficult for the crooks to come up with new addresses just to get a few coins.

Having a warning listing the behaviors of swindlers when you open your "start a swap" button or a numisdoc or something like that would also be helpful.

Restricting new members to make swaps up to say 3 coins and increase the privilege of how many coins you can swap as a direct proportion of your reputation (using whatever metrics, for instance your star rating times your amount of swaps, so a 4 star with 10 swaps has a rep value of 4x10=40 and a 5 star with 100 swaps a rep value of 500), so as your rep value increases, so does the amount of coins you can trade per swap, that or maybe the amount of swaps open at the same time, to prevent multiple members getting hit all at once,or a combination of both.

These are just ideas... I know I have not been trading a lot just yet, but I got hit twice already in just 11 trades. Personally I would not mind having to go through what I just proposed to build my "numista credit" so to speak, and then have full benefits of the site when my score is high and stable. That would just be paying my dues

Cheers
Trade only within the US.
Quote: "bam777"​The trouble with the Has anyone else...posts is that the member gets named, addresses sometimes get mentioned in feedback, screenshots of conversation gets mentioned.

​I have to actively edit the posts...then in doing so, it no longer makes sense, then it needs changing to make more sense.

​I would like to see a black bar appear for members below par. That would definitely demonstrate that the member is no good.

​I would still like a black list...but I know that contravenes French laws.

​Anyway, thanks for your comments. If I could easily cut and shut a thread I would. Considering the member in question is no longer active, I have logged his account and will make a search to see if he has appeared under another name.
​I agree it was getting a little out of hand, and it is so difficult to remove the offensive parts and have the rest of the thread make sense. Better to delete the whole thing.

Cheers
Trade only within the US.
It does really seem sometimes that the focus is on protecting the worthless dregs instead of the community. I know Ben well enough to confirm that this isn't the case but it still frustrates me.

I love the swapping part of Numista, not just for the new coins it brings but for the friends and contacts I've made all over the world. I sometimes worry that Xavier might one day decide that it's too much drama and scrap the whole swap engine to concentrate on the catalog part only. So I reckon if putting up with a few teenage bums and deadbeats is the price we have to pay then we ought to just make the best of it.

For some time now I've been spending a little free time here and there producing a complete grading guide to replace the current inadequate Numisdoc. I think it might be beneficial to put that on ice and write a more comprehensive guide on how to avoid scammers and thieves. I've been doing this longer than many of you have been alive and can usually spot a deadbeat quite early. I've called out most of the notorious scammers from Coinsoldier to Change of Name Pending before anyone else and in well over 100 swaps here I only been cheated once, entirely due to not following my instincts and self imposed rules. It might be time well spent if it saves only a handful of victims as they often give up and leave the site entirely after being cheated.

Spare time is always in short supply so don't expect to see anything soon, but I'll make a start once I get through cataloging my recent most excellent bunch of new coins bought yesterday which are giving me a warm fuzzy glow.
Non illegitimis carborundum est.  Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!  
A guide to swap "street smarts" would not be amiss, but I for one am greatly looking forward to your grading guide! I pulled a handful of predecimal coppers out of the junk bins yesterday and spent a fair amount of time last night trying to scrounge up advice regard the grading "flags" for Edward and George V.
Quote: "Carlos55"Restricting new members to make swaps up to say 3 coins and increase the privilege of how many coins you can swap as a direct proportion of your reputation, so as your rep value increases, so does the amount of coins you can trade per swap.
I certainly support every idea/decision to counteract the scammers but in my opinion it's never a good idea if the many good guys are being punished for the behavior of a few bad guys. There must be other ways to unmask these imposters. Of course, we are used that the good guys have to pay for the bad ones (franchises with assurances because they are ripped off by a few, increasing of income taxes because others find a way to not pay for that, or far to less, and so on). And do we like that? No, we don't, so let us not start with that here either.
Carlos55, in your example in the quote, you can take "the good guys have to pay for the bad ones" very literally. The shipment costs for 3 coins is as much as for 9 coins (on average), so the new members have to pay 3 times more for shipment costs, or even much much more in case of registered mail. So in my opinion this is a very bad idea.
However, your second idea, a limitation of the amount of open swaps at the same time, seems to me a very good idea to avoid that someone is planning to rip off a lot of members in a very short time, but only with this adaptation: the amount of confirmed swaps in stead of open swaps.

Anyway, we don't have to have any compassion with scammers because they screw up our beloved hobby. And of course there must be rules, but if the forum rules are violated to avoid scammers to have their way, so be it. Being scammed is much worse than a violation of a forum rule, so in the case of scammers I think it's better to bend the rules a bit.
Quote: "Essor Prof"
Quote: "Carlos55"Restricting new members to make swaps up to say 3 coins and increase the privilege of how many coins you can swap as a direct proportion of your reputation, so as your rep value increases, so does the amount of coins you can trade per swap.
​I certainly support every idea/decision to counteract the scammers but in my opinion it's never a good idea if the many good guys are being punished for the behavior of a few bad guys. There must be other ways to unmask these imposters. Of course, we are used that the good guys have to pay for the bad ones (franchises with assurances because they are ripped off by a few, increasing of income taxes because others find a way to not pay for that, or far to less, and so on). And do we like that? No, we don't, so let us not start with that here either.
​Carlos55, in your example in the quote, you can take "the good guys have to pay for the bad ones" very literally. The shipment costs for 3 coins is as much as for 9 coins (on average), so the new members have to pay 3 times more for shipment costs, or even much much more in case of registered mail. So in my opinion this is a very bad idea.
​However, your second idea, a limitation of the amount of open swaps at the same time, seems to me a very good idea to avoid that someone is planning to rip off a lot of members in a very short time, but only with this adaptation: the amount of confirmed swaps in stead of open swaps.

​Anyway, we don't have to have any compassion with scammers because they screw up our beloved hobby. And of course there must be rules, but if the forum rules are violated to avoid scammers to have their way, so be it. Being scammed is much worse than a violation of a forum rule, so in the case of scammers I think it's better to bend the rules a bit.

Trade only within the US.
why not set swap ability with forum post counts? I have more than proven myself with several selfless swaps and I feel the fact I have been active on the forum since joining plays a big part with trust.

I would go with something like at least 200-300 posts before being able to swap unless they are very well known personally by a long standing trusted member. This provides a window into that members personality to figure out how trustworthy they are. if they are up to no good then they will crumble eventually and mess up to be exposed.

I cant bring myself to trust anyone I haven't got used to with any swap, I have only done a handful to date. There is still one I have with Phil but there isn't anything I can think of to receive, I would rather wait until I need maybe something purchased and sent over, say a silver proof I may see that cannot be purchased from my location.

I plan on adding some coins to my swap list over the next few weeks, but I will decline anyone I haven't seen on the forum well enough to trust.
Restoration addict : Verdigris Removal : Zinc White spot removal : Iron Rust Removal : Silver brooch/necklace mount Removal
Quote: "Fluke"​I cant bring myself to trust anyone I haven't got used to with any swap, I have only done a handful to date. There is still one I have with Phil but there isn't anything I can think of to receive, I would rather wait until I need maybe something purchased and sent over, say a silver proof I may see that cannot be purchased from my location.

​I plan on adding some coins to my swap list over the next few weeks, but I will decline anyone I haven't seen on the forum well enough to trust.





​Yes a forum presence is a great way of getting to know someone and gauging their worth. Chances are that someone behaving like a clown will have a similar cavalier attitude towards the more serious business of trusting someone with some possibly high value coins at the other end of the world. Usually they will have feedback to match their public persona but there are people with perfect feedback who I wouldn't entertain the idea of swapping with, drama queens or just general unpleasant misfits. You just know that any swap with this type is going to be hassle and drama from start to finish. Who needs it when there are pleasant, honest, level headed adults from all parts of the globe from whom I can usually get any coin I need?

As an example, I've never swapped with our Forum King, Neil simply because during the time that I was actively trading overseas he wasn't interested in swapping so the opportunity never arose. However after being members here for almost half a decade each I know him well enough to be certain I could make a trade and be treated right and not have to worry about any "unlucky mailbox" stories or waiting months for him to get round to mailing the coins. There are dozens of others who fit the description just as well. This is entirely due to how we have interacted on the forum and by private messages.

Conversely, our new friend named after a well known search engine had pretty much exposed himself and his ill intentions by the evasive and eventually outright dishonest way he used the forum. As did countless others.

I'm not convinced though of the wisdom of making a set number of forum posts a condition of using the swap engine. When Dan made a similar announcement for the MPCC it was met with several, "Great, I'll go and make 30 forum posts and get back to you shortly" comments. Our most infamous swindler Coinsoldier could meet that criteria on a single good day merely making posts reminding everyone about his missing parts. Some of the nicest people on Numista avoid the forum either partially or entirely. I know a good many of them and have been quite happily trading with them in and out of Numista.

BTW, I have some silver proofs in my safe which I'll list and let you browse through. I didn't know that was your kinda thang.

(Removal of member names made by bam777)
Non illegitimis carborundum est.  Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!  
There are far more "good" members doing swaps off the forum then "good" members on the forum.

However new collectors would do well to use the forum as Phil said, it helps us get to know them.
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!

Looking for pre 1783 coins
I am a member of the stamp forum which uses the 30/30 (now they changed it to 60/60 I think) to great effect. There are almost no swindlers there!

And on a side note, please try not to bash Ben too much - he has a very difficult job and he doesn't get anything out of it.
I think that number of needed forum posts, befor you can swap is not the best option, if English(or French) is not your own language, it's hard for some people(incl me a little) to participate. And if you like to use this to check, you always can find his forum posts.
I have a pritty huge collection and for me it's hard to find a good swap on numista, so once and a while I also scan for newbyes. I understand there's a risk, but sometimes I would like to take that risk, or of course let them send first. But our last scammer I didn't had any doubt ....
I think if we show the number of active or confirmed but not rated swaps, this could help in some situations I think? Or indeed limitation of max number of active swap in the beginning, so not so many people can by ripped off, but are our last 2 scammers "in the beginning"?
I'm "relatively" new to numista. In the first phase, I uploaded my want list and collection to the site; in the second phase, it was about swapping. Now I am slowly warming up to commenting as well. However, with past experience, I am very hesitant to get too involved. I've found forum discussions can get very heated and its silly that it should be so given that sitting thousands of kms away, we don't really know each other and the issues are more often than not, very trivial.

I think what makes numista such a great experience for me is that its got so many moving parts to it, that every member can find that little part which he loves the most be it swapping, commenting, updating the catalogue etc. And I think as collectors, we have to accept that even with diligence,there'll always be those days when we get screwed in a deal. That's just a part of normal life in any case isn't it ? However, I'm sure most will agree with me that getting cheated is a relatively rare occurrence. And if its not, well, that is something to say about one's due diligence process!
Outings administrator
Did all the effected traders send the coin letters at the same time i.e last week of December 2015( in my case)----if so would it be possible to limit the amount of open trades to say 3 until they had a feedback history of say 50

However this is my only real let down in nearly 300 trades-- only exceptions lost mail to Malaysia and Russia(2) so i guess I have been lucky

I doubt if this guy intended to rip people off- more likely had 1 or 2 trades go wrong- and than gave up!!!!
Quote: "muzz0000"​Did all the effected traders send the coin letters at the same time i.e last week of December 2015( in my case)----if so would it be possible to limit the amount of open trades to say 3 until they had a feedback history of say 50

​However this is my only real let down in nearly 300 trades-- only exceptions lost mail to Malaysia and Russia(2) so i guess I have been lucky

​I doubt if this guy intended to rip people off- more likely had 1 or 2 trades go wrong- and than gave up!!!!
​Mine was in the first week of January... this is the first time it happens to me too, but the way it was orchestrated pissed me off, I didn't lose anything considering how much it was (About $7-$10).

But I do believe that for newbies which some of us we like to help/guide/assist etc there should be some sort of limitations... at least during the first 3 month, I will love to swap every day but really how desperate are you to complete 50 swaps in one month or something like that... this coins are around since many years and they are not going any where ;)
JustforFun...
I'm a Newb and recently "opened" my very modest collection to Swaps.

From reading the posts and meeting some of the members in person, I gave them the heads-up. In no time at all I had 5 Swaps on-the-go. I quickly realized that 2 Swaps at a time was more realistic for my meagre talents and I have updated my Profile accordingly. I am down to 4 on-the-go with 5 people waiting in a queue.

In short, I would feel absolutely awful if I let someone down and there is a far better chance that would happen if I have spread myself too thin.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble.  It's what you know for sure, that just ain't so.  Mark Twain
I simply can't imagine how anyone can cope with 10 or more swaps going on. I feel overwhelmed if I'm faced with more than two or three and suddenly a pleasant hobby starts to look like a J.O.B. I haven't spent a whole lifetime avoiding work just to do it as a hobby!

I'm quite happily retired and once my wife goes to work and The Abbinator goes to school I have nothing much to do once the animals are fed and the beds made. The idea of filling my entire day negotiating coin swaps just isn't appealing, there's just too much other stuff I want to do. I love collecting coins, chatting about coins, finding new coins, and yes, swapping coins. But the minute I start to feel swamped I shut down my swap list for a while, clear up the outstanding obligations and take a long break.

I'm wondering if a lot of these kiddies who end up with a bad reputation are just victims of their own enthusiasm. They like the idea of swapping so they accept every incoming request and open multiple swaps with all parts of the globe. Then it's very easy to lose track, promise the same coin to multiple people and just can't find enough time to meet their obligations so they just delete their accounts. Maybe restricting newer members to no more than two open swaps would give some protection to potential victims and be an act of mercy to those without the maturity to cope.

While there are several younger collectors who conduct themselves very well and are an absolute pleasure to deal with, it really can't be denied that almost all of Numista's problems, swap related or otherwise, can be traced back to badly supervised kiddies. It would be tempting to say that nobody under 18 should be engaging in any form of trading as they are too young to be held accountable. However that would prevent those who are acting in an exemplary manner from participating. Perhaps the best solution is for adults to avoid any type of exchange with a minor unless it's someone you know to be mature and reliable.
Non illegitimis carborundum est.  Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!  
I do not know if he was all that young- he mentioned to me that he lived in Springfield ( I asked him if he had met Homer Simpson and worked at the Nuclear factory) and had worked across state for many years

I guess the other thing would be good to know is how many of the trades he started- i know in my case he approached me

I usually have about 12 open trades ( neg and in the mail) and found the easiest way to keep track of coins was to place in VG column as soon as confirmed,(or sooner if you know trade is going to work- at point of reserving) and alter incoming coins once you have received them to appropiate grade (I do not collect VG of course so easy to spot---It just ensures that you do not offer same coins twice, or order twice---seems to work well and easy to spot---maybe moderators could install 6th column- for "in transit"

Just one thought- if letters from the USA were only posted in late Dec early Jan is it possible some are still in post-would expect about 3 weeks at this time of year to arrive here

WISHFUL HOPING!!!!!!
Quote: "pnightingale"

​BTW, I have some silver proofs in my safe which I'll list and let you browse through. I didn't know that was your kinda thang.



Silver proofs make my tingly bits tingle. Not bullion proofs though, they feel too fake to me with no real point to owning them apart from value, I am sure others might disagree though.
Commemorative coins are mostly what I look out for, I don't have any Canadian proofs of any coin value yet, plenty of Canadian silver and that's it.

I keep saying it, but I can't seem to get around to adding coins I have for swap, it is always the "do it later" scenario. Like I have four 1853 and one 1854 Victoria pennies sat in my doubles case unloved. But it is also down to who asks to swap as my trust level is pretty low with people I don't know well via the forum.


Restoration addict : Verdigris Removal : Zinc White spot removal : Iron Rust Removal : Silver brooch/necklace mount Removal
Fluke iam with you. To me poofs are not coins, just made to sell to collectors. I know iam going to upset some with this but. Coins are made to circulate , if not made to circulate are not coins. Everything else are coin something, but not coins. Just away for the mints to make money. To me I think poofs should have there own page, and not put in with the real coins, here. But I know that would make too many pages.
On the trust do what make you happy. You can offer them to people you trust by PM. Just because the site has a swap area does not mean you have to use it.
yours daryl
It is, what it is, or is it.
Oh forgot, this on going blame Bam777 for moderating. Is going the wrong way. Bam777 thank you for your work, free to. But if you not like the moderation he not the one you should be talking about. He has arule book to go by , so to speak . If you don't like the rules ask the man to explain them to you. He is the one who writes the book,
It is, what it is, or is it.
Quote: "ALLRED1950"​Fluke iam with you. To me poofs are not coins, just made to sell to collectors. I know iam going to upset some with this but. Coins are made to circulate , if not made to circulate are not coins. Everything else are coin something, but not coins. Just away for the mints to make money. To me I think poofs should have there own page, and not put in with the real coins, here. But I know that would make too many pages.

​I feel the same way, I get annoyed with all the lines of proofs on the coin pages when I'm adding coins :-)
There is a very good case to be made for listing proof issues separately. In long ago times (say... pre 1950) a very limited number of proofs were struck whenever a new set of coins was to be issued. Major design changes, new rulers, changes to denominations etc. etc. These proof coins served a purpose, they were intended to demonstrate how the proposed new coins would look and feel. Sometimes a very limited number of sets would be struck for museums and VIPs. These were coins with a genuine numismatic value and appeal and are extremely expensive.

Now, every coin in every country is replicated in a proof version and distributed to the public, often in plastic cases. They serve no purpose and have little numismatic value. As a consequence they can often be bough much cheaper than an uncirculated business strike of the same type and year. There is now a quite farcical situation where such coins are struck with no regular issue counterpart. How can a "coin" which isn't even representative of a circulating coin be considered numismatically significant? Answer - it can't. It's a contrived fantasy token which often commemorates some insignificant event.

I would like to see proofs listed separately even if they share a KM # with the regular coins as most collectors are not interested in them unless they are of the earlier, non commercially driven types. They deprive collectors of the sense of accomplishment they should enjoy upon completing a series.

In addition, a very good case could be made for moving all proof/NCLT issues into a separate category, under the parent country, where they wouldn't be congesting the main catalog (take a look at Canada). However that's not really in keeping with the overall Numista structure so I reckon I'll have to live with it.
Non illegitimis carborundum est.  Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!  
On a side note: I absolutley love older NCLTs and I detest modern ones. In the past NCLT coins were issued with good designs, not that often, and best of all, for a reason.

Phil, I thought you might like this one ;):

Hey Phil
I was hoping you would weigh in. I 'am not a big fan of proof, but have some.I could go ether way. I did put up in the catalog area. Just to see what others think.
My friend stay dry today
yours daryl
It is, what it is, or is it.
Quote: "dptashny"​On a side note: I absolutley love older NCLTs and I detest modern ones. In the past NCLT coins were issued with good designs, not that often, and best of all, for a reason.

​Phil, I thought you might like this one ;):

​Yes, that's exactly what I mean by numismatically significant. That was no doubt a beautiful coin before it was scrubbed. Still is actually, that's one for the "toning albums" I reckon.
Non illegitimis carborundum est.  Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!  
OK please educate me. What are NCLT coins
It is, what it is, or is it.
Quote: "ALLRED1950"​ OK please educate me. What are NCLT coins
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-circulating_legal_tender
thank you ZacUK, I know it had to be something like that
It is, what it is, or is it.
Quote: "ALLRED1950"​ thank you ZacUK, I know it had to be something like that
​Thanks for asking, I didn't know ether ;)
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!

Looking for pre 1783 coins

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