Commemorative coins that are not really coins issued by THE country [solved]

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Hello. I posted a similar subject some time ago, but I noticed, that this procedure is very common, especially with 3rd world countries.

I see a lot of commemorative coins, like: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces59017.html, so many others, really beautiful, sometimes coloured coins from all around Africa, but knowing the realities of those countries it was hard to believe, that they are issuing such a coins!

So I was trying to search some more information about it. I find out that this "5 Cedis - Elizabeth II" example (and other from "African" coin series) was actually made in Germany. Ghanian coin made in Germany and never issued in Ghana? WFT?

I would be very grateful if someone could elaborate this subject and share more information what kind of a witchcraft is that? ;-)

How to recognise fake coins from genuine national ones. Is there any list?
Maybe there should be another coin type: "fake commemorative"? :-/

Thanks.
I know the Württemberg Mint produces coins for more than 40 countries. Orders, design and request for creating and offering this coin to the public still come from the Country on the coin so I wouldn`t call it fake.

Many countries don`t have a own coin mint and have always minted their coins abroad, even for regular circulating coins.
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But this case is different. What you described is a common practise.

I will give you an example of proper commemorative Ghanian coin, minted, certainly, outside:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces73938.html
And that was a proper, legal currency in Ghana, you could legally pay with.

On ebay, the previous example (coin with elephant) is signed like this:
- Country/Region of Manufacture: Germany
- Certification: HISTORIA HAMBURG
whaaat?
Independent Ghanian coin with Elizabeth II? Oh please... What's next? Congoleese coin with Leopold II? Polish coin with Adolf Hitler? ;-))) Yea.... Im pretty sure, Ghanian government really like to issue coins to celebrate their inviders ;-)
It's just soooo fishy!


And, another example, this:
https://firstcoincompany.com/S/image/cache/data/LM/LUNAR%20SKULLS/GOAT%202015/republic-of-ghana-year-of-the-goat-series-lunar-skulls-2015-silver-coin-5gh-cedis-PROOF-1-oz_REVERSE-900x900.jpg
What is fishy?
- A chineese kanji letter,
- chineese horoscope sign?????
- Manufactured in Australia.


I'm an often expact in Ghana, I think I will go one day to Ghana Bank and ask if someone can help me to clearify.

Oh, I also add, that those series are "Lunar skulls series" which are "issued" for different 3rd world countries, and the first one is "Africa series", also issued for many different countries.
It almost looks like some smartass, knowing that it is not illigal (according to those 3rd world countries law) to issue coins under their nationality. Or there is no way to be legally suit for MAKING those "exotic" coins...
Am I wrong??
haopl, that´s why these commemorative coins are listed as non-circulating ;)

Yes, I do agree there are some non-circulating you can spend as a currency, but it´s basically on the same basis and it is done well here.
Ok, I understand that.
But it still doesn't answer my question, are THOSE coins oficially issued by Ghana goverment?
If YES: I will be happy to have them ;-)
If NOT: Then... WTF? who "pirates" them? Is it legal?
My understanding is that the both coins (Ghana with British queen and Australia pseudo-Chinese) are actually not coins but silver bullion. The difference being, all commemorative coins (at least all official commemorative) are issued by the government through authorized contractor and are so called "legal tenders" - official money - and all national banks by law must accept them for face value.
In contrary, the silver bullions are:
1. made without any authorization from the government (often made by private companies)
2. are NOT the legal tenders (nobody is obliged to accept them as money) and the only value of it is actually the amount of precious metal in it
3. since they are mostly private issues, there is no limit of what manufacturer can forge on them - aliens, foreign queens, satanic symbols or fantasy horoscopes - who cares?
Having said that, I have to admit that sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference between coins and bullions. Probably, the simplest way would be to look at Krause - if it is not there than it's not a coin (not a legal tender).
There is a time for everything - Il y a un temps pour tout - Всему есть свое время - Для всього свій час, і година своя кожній справі під небом
glykan: Great answer. Thank you.

I was very confused by that matter, because in my country, bullions are not allawed to have VALUE (so they came up with a name "numismats", because previously used "medals" didn't sound attractive enought, and it's also illegal to use name "coins" for bullions) and they are, as you said, issued by private companies for... rather naive people. But the lack of VALUE is, I guess, only one country's law ... ;-)

...and - with my not so great english - I didn't understand the definition of "bullions".
Bullion is a rectangular or round piece of precious metal of certain weight - https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruszce - this is a very brief Wiki article on it in Polish.
In Canada, Royal Canadian Mint makes silver round bullions for investment purposes and put a "face value" - usually 5 dollar on 1 oz round "coin". It is very confusing - on one hand, it is something issued by official Canadian mint and has a face value, on the other hand RCM sells them as "silver bullions" , not as coins and they are probably NOT legal tenders. So, what they are? Probably just round pieces of silver...
Anyhow, their design is usually pretty dull and they are not listed in coin catalogs - therefore I simply stay away from them. (Yes, forgot to tell - they are also expensive (8)
There is a time for everything - Il y a un temps pour tout - Всему есть свое время - Для всього свій час, і година своя кожній справі під небом
Thanks!
When I lived in Canada I liked the fact that there are so many commemorative quarters (and not only) in circulation. For me (lover of coins) shopping was always like a little lottery - will I get new coin for my collection or not ;-))))
That I miss (and Timbits)
Thanks again for great answer.


P.S.
Oh, I have a quick question for you: I have never seen 50 cents in Canada in circulation. I know it exists, but was I just unlucky or you don't use at all?
As far as I know piss poor countries often sell lisences to private mints to give their metal objects some ... officialness if that's a word. You get a denomination and can stamp an existing country name on it.
The country might also recieve some of the sales profits.
If these coins were purely private they wouldn't be in the country catalog but under Tokens/Exonumia.
Also the last time I checked Ghana is still in the commonwealth so there you have your reason for Lizzy.
Quote: "haopl"​Thanks!
​When I lived in Canada I liked the fact that there are so many commemorative quarters (and not only) in circulation. For me (lover of coins) shopping was always like a little lottery - will I get new coin for my collection or not ;-))))
​That I miss (and Timbits)
​Thanks again for great answer.


​P.S.
​Oh, I have a quick question for you: I have never seen 50 cents in Canada in circulation. I know it exists, but was I just unlucky or you don't use at all?
​I must admit that the chances of getting a commemorative coin in your change in Canada decrease very quickly - if a couple of years ago one could get is quite often, nowadays it is more and more seldom event. I guess, people are taking them away immediately when they see them... Also depends on the place you live in - in large cities there is more collectors and, therefore, less commemoratives in circulation while in small cities one can get them more often. By the way, this year there will be a whole new set of circulation coins dedicated to 150th anniversary of Canada and my educated guess is that those will be swiped away from circulation VERY fast.
About 50 cents - the last mintage meant for circulation was probably in 1985 and though I've heard of people who got them from circulation, I personally didn't see any 50 cent coins in circulation since year 2000.
There is a time for everything - Il y a un temps pour tout - Всему есть свое время - Для всього свій час, і година своя кожній справі під небом
Sorry...but every Canadian bullion coin is legal tender. So are the bullion coins of the USA, UK, Austria, Australia. South Africa...I could go on and on. The attraction of denominated bullion coins is that they have a guaranteed fineness and the support of a government.

As far as your self righteous indignation of Queen Elizabeth II on coins of Ghana: She was the Queen of Ghana in the late fifties. She officially visited them on at least one occasion. Why wouldn't they want to bank on their connection with her? They have every right to put her on their coins. Countries don't owe any individuals a reason for the topic they commemorate.
You do not have to collect them. I would not be an asshat about it though. You might be stepping on others toes.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Quote: "Oklahoman"​Sorry...but every Canadian bullion coin is legal tender.

​You are right - I should have guessed that if they are manufactured by RCM and have a face value, they must be legal tender...
On the other hand I didn't see any of them in Krause or Charlton - do you know if there are any specialized coin bullion catalogs?
There is a time for everything - Il y a un temps pour tout - Всему есть свое время - Для всього свій час, і година своя кожній справі під небом
Krause may just be behind in the updates. But bullion is listed with km numbers in my 20th century andb21st century catalogs...when you look up your bullion coins on mumista are there no KM numbers represented?
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
It is exactly my problem - I don't see my Canadian 2012-2014 bullions neither in Krause (2000-date ed. 2016) nor in Numista catalog. Moreover, I don't see them in Charlton's Canadian coin catalog or even on RCM website - though they've been purchased directly from RCM. I seriously doubt that they have KM# at all...
There is a time for everything - Il y a un temps pour tout - Всему есть свое время - Для всього свій час, і година своя кожній справі під небом
Bullion coins are listed in the 2017 20th and 21st century catalogs. The silver ones start on page 348 of the 20th century catalog. Followed by the gold and platinum. The bullion issues start on page 313 I think, in the 21st century catalogs...

Bullion coins are sorted by metal near to the end of the Canadian listings. They are not mixed in with the circ or commem regular coins.

You may have just stopped looking too soon.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Quote: "Oklahoman"​You may have just stopped looking too soon.

​You are right - silly (impatient) me - looked again and yes, they are there.
At the same time couldn't help myself to notice that - surprise surprise - Krause lists Canadian "$20 for $20", "$50 for $50" and "$100 for $100" series as bullion coins. Sounds strange for me and it completely blurs the line between commemorative coins and bullions - but they probably have their reasons to call them bullion coins. Not that I really care though...
There is a time for everything - Il y a un temps pour tout - Всему есть свое время - Для всього свій час, і година своя кожній справі під небом
We get them in Australia too. Mostly issued by the Perth Mint which is not the official mint for Australian circulating coins. The Perth Mint issues Bullion and some base metal coins. All of them are NCLT. You could legally spend them for face value if you were dumb enough to do that. They churn them out so fast you can't keep up with them.

Mike
Referee for Australia & New Zealand Coins & Exonumia, Papua New Guinea & Cocos & Keeling Islands Coins & Australian Banknotes. I Collect > Australia, UK & Dependancies, NZ Sets, USA & Euros plus Misc Exonumia.

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