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Purzelgnom
Joined: 19-Oct-2010
Posts: 39
Here the thread in colnect forum

http://colnect.com/forums/viewtopic.php?lang=de&f=144&t=73007#p204489

colnect didn't delete the pictures.
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
You arrived at right time, we were just discussing colnect on referee forum. I am trying to exert some pressure on them, so far, I got them to remove 5 photos out of 7 I tried. Still waiting for answer on those two. I will push them more once I get an answer.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
andysla
Joined: 11-Sep-2015
Posts: 100
wow!!!
You are right
mine to
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces98695.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces102636.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces102637.html
Sorry no Swaps. Paraguay Post Office is to risky and they don't allow to send coins nor notes
andysla
Joined: 11-Sep-2015
Posts: 100
I notice that they are not only taking our pictures from numista
they are also copying our description of the coin
that's not fair
have in mind that only a admin can upload a coin in Colcnet (one of the reasons i left colcnet)
Sorry no Swaps. Paraguay Post Office is to risky and they don't allow to send coins nor notes
jelle
Joined: 18-Oct-2014
Posts: 583
Quote: "andysla"​I notice that they are not only taking our pictures from numista
​they are also copying our description of the coin
​that's not fair
​have in mind that only a admin can upload a coin in Colcnet (one of the reasons i left colcnet)
​Blackmail them
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
I just requested about 40 other coin images to be removed. If you want to help me, report them yourself or give me some links here, I will report them too. Let's bombard them a little.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
CassTaylor
Joined: 30-May-2014
Posts: 465
So we are at war with Colnect?

Nasty thing, that.
Une Franglaise
Mon empire colonial: Référent pour Hongkong, Cochin/Indochine, Singapour, Malaise, Tonkin, Ceylan, Niger, Haïti, Nouvelle-Guinée, les Antilles Danoises, Côte-de-l'Or, Kiautschou, Îles Cocos, Bornéo du Nord, Érythrée, Guinée, et plus..
andysla
Joined: 11-Sep-2015
Posts: 100
http://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/88252-1_Guaran%C3%AD_58_Anual_Meeting_of_BID-1944~Today_-_Republic_Guaran%C3%AD_Numismatic_Product-Paraguay
I can see my phone in the reflection of the coin.
the same one i uploaded here.
i believe someone is checking all the time Numista and uploading the missing coin there
Sorry no Swaps. Paraguay Post Office is to risky and they don't allow to send coins nor notes
Purzelgnom
Joined: 19-Oct-2010
Posts: 39
"The use of someone's work, especially by a commercial organization, is not legal"

Colnect use the pictures from 37 coins with my copyright.
Avers + Revers = 74 pictures

According to the law in germany, the unauthorized use of a picture for a private person costs 100 euros. Which is then 7400 euros and lawyers as well as court costs.
For companies much more expensive.

If someone wants to use the images for non-commercial purposes and ask before it would be something different.
smoked_caramel
Joined: 3-Jul-2012
Posts: 1197
Would not it be better for us, Numista community, if instead of asking Colnect to remove the photos we'd ask them to add copyright notice for both Numista and original photo owner?
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
Well maybe, but there are principles. If someone stoles something from you, it is he who should ask for permission.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
smoked_caramel
Joined: 3-Jul-2012
Posts: 1197
Quote: "Jarcek"​Well maybe, but there are principles. If someone stoles something from you, it is he who should ask for permission.
​No doubt about that. But there are still different options solving the issue and making everyone satisfied. After all, it is not someone's kidney they stole, right? ;)
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
No, but still, there are several hundreds of pictures stolen there. Somebody has been doing it intentionally.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
Ecapoe Numista team
Joined: 7-Dec-2013
Posts: 1799
Quote: "smoked_caramel"​Would not it be better for us, Numista community, if instead of asking Colnect to remove the photos we'd ask them to add copyright notice for both Numista and original photo owner?
​I tend to agree with smoked_caramel. We'd better ask them to remove or put the Numista copyright.
Though they may not have such a field in their data base :~
Then it's ads for us !
Quand l'Histoire et la Géographie se croisent sur nos pièces de monnaie ...
Referee for Austria-Habsburg, Austrian Netherlands, and Co-referee for Austrian States, Bohemia, Silesia.
Traducteur, demandez en cas de besoin ! Translator, ask if you need !
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
Problem is that pictures they use are not Numista's to give...
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
doc_man
Joined: 9-Mar-2011
Posts: 486
Agree with Jarcek - if there is Numista copyright then they should link to our website but first of all they should ask if this will be ok for us and after permission make a link . Last week i get copyrights from Polish Mint just for Numista not for Colnect or other site, do you think it is ok for polish mint that other site use their copyright without permissions ?
Regards,
Damian
Numista referee for Biafra, Cameroon, Dahomey, Djibouti, Gabon, Gambia, The, Poland, Congo - Democratic Republic, Senegal, Chad
smoked_caramel
Joined: 3-Jul-2012
Posts: 1197
Quote: "doc_man"Last week i get copyrights from Polish Mint just for Numista
​That is actually is a pretty good news! Hooray! :wiz:

Wouldn't we add the proper copyright on Numista page in this case? And if Colnect steals this image they will have to deal with polish Mint, not Numista.

In case of people taking pictures of their own coins, something like (C) Smoked Caramel @ Numista.com would work to my satisfaction. And if they can link Smoked Caramel part of it to my Numista profile page and Numista.com to our front page... 0:)

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending Colnect in any way (even though I use it for my banknotes collection), I'm just offering a potential resolution of the situation that seems to be something that can work in our favour.
doc_man
Joined: 9-Mar-2011
Posts: 486
I never thought in that way, understand your point of view and agree with it. I think if they want to use our photo must ask for permission from Numista and numista member who own the copyright. If they would do in that way for me is no problem to share my copyrights. But we shouldn't agree for copyrights received from other sites. I believe it will be good looking to show good will from Numista community , that we are open for dialogue but the initiative should come from theirs side, we are all collectors after all.
Numista referee for Biafra, Cameroon, Dahomey, Djibouti, Gabon, Gambia, The, Poland, Congo - Democratic Republic, Senegal, Chad
pnightingale
Joined: 27-Jul-2011
Posts: 4615
I seem to recall that Numista found itself in a very similar situation when one of the teenie gang uploaded thousands of pictures from unauthorised sources. Numista's hands are far from clean in this regard.

I would suggest that an adult conversation Xavier and his colnect counterpart Amir is long overdue. Surely it ought to be possible to work out some framework by which images can be shared. Both sites provide a service to collectors without which coin collecting just wouldn't be the same.

Actually there is plenty of scope for collaboration across a wide range of issues. Imagine if both sites pooled their resources to stamp out the serial scammer problem? Unlike the aenemic Numista response, Colnect are happy to publish the names and addresses used by thieves. How hard would it be to set up a blacklist, hosted by Colnect but linked to both sites for easy access.
Non illegitimis carborundum est (don't let the bastards wear you down). Excellent advice for all coins.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking
Ecapoe Numista team
Joined: 7-Dec-2013
Posts: 1799
Quote: "pnightingale"​I seem to recall that Numista found itself in a very similar situation when one of the teenie gang uploaded thousands of pictures from unauthorised sources. Numista's hands are far from clean in this regard.



​True, but as far as I know, Numista did what was needed to clean up the situation.
Quand l'Histoire et la Géographie se croisent sur nos pièces de monnaie ...
Referee for Austria-Habsburg, Austrian Netherlands, and Co-referee for Austrian States, Bohemia, Silesia.
Traducteur, demandez en cas de besoin ! Translator, ask if you need !
Purzelgnom
Joined: 19-Oct-2010
Posts: 39
its easy compare pictures with google search.

take link to picture for example

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/photos/etats_allemands/g4159.jpg

copy that link in google pictures search:

https://www.google.de/imghp?tbm=isch&hl=de&source=hp&btnG=Bilder+suchen&gbv=2

and goolge shows the same pictures on web
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
http://colnect.com/en/forum/viewtopic!f=90&t=76383

Realistically, this is not an argument you are going to win.
HoH
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
********* Fould words **********

I will be informing some sites they stole pictures from, and I can only advise you to either ask them for removal of your pictures by using their email below... or fill out the lawsuit. They are obviously quite mad, using one blog-post (which has a dislaimer of NOT-being written by lawyer) as a source for copyright policy...

They send me this email:

Colnect offers collectors from around the world extensive catalogs for free. The catalogs are created in a wiki-like fashion as described on http://colnect.com/help/collecting/more_collectibles
Many collectors contribute information to Colnect's catalogs and many more enjoy this information which helps collectors know more about what interests them.
Collectors contributing to Colnect agreed to our "Terms of Service" which include clear instructions protecting copyrights.
Colnect abides to the Israeli copyrights law which, similar to other copyrights laws, protects original creations. Factual information, such as the size of a banknote or weight of a coin, cannot be protected. Copying an existing creation which has copyrights, such as when scanning a banknote, does not grant copyrights to the person making a copy.

If there's any concern that copyrights have been infringed, please send us exact details and we will do our best to remove any infringement as quickly as possible.
Here are the details needed for each and every item which is suspected of infringement:
* Creation type
* Name, id number and full mailing address of the person claiming to have copyrights over the creation.
* The date when the creation was created and the method that was used to create it.
* Declaration of the person claiming to have copyrights stating he/she is holding the copyrights of the creation. This declaration should be signed and the signature verified by a lawyer.
* Link to the page on Colnect where the creation is seen.

In addition, if the claim refers to a picture please include:
* Direct link to the image itself on Colnect
* The original image file (without processing)

If claiming infringement of over 10 creations, we may supply you with a spreadsheet file where all those details could be filled more easily.

The information provided here isn't legally binding, doesn't constitute a legal advice and should be used only for quickly resolving misunderstandings so that all parties involved are pleased. We wish you happy collecting and hope you'll be enjoying Colnect.

Further communication may be directed to copyrights_report@colnect.com
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
They even manipulate with the images using pohotoshop and so they can claim it is not stolen. :D
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
Ecapoe Numista team
Joined: 7-Dec-2013
Posts: 1799
However, as a "courtesy" to other collectors who took those photos, they should be removed :°
This is colnect admin's own word.
Quand l'Histoire et la Géographie se croisent sur nos pièces de monnaie ...
Referee for Austria-Habsburg, Austrian Netherlands, and Co-referee for Austrian States, Bohemia, Silesia.
Traducteur, demandez en cas de besoin ! Translator, ask if you need !
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
By courtesy, they deny their removal when I pointed them out, asked for some crazy paperwork with written words from author. Completely denying that there is a name under Numista photos and pretending that they might have uploaded them on colnect too. I would be very happy if they were sued.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
You are wasting your time.
HoH
Stavros
Joined: 30-Dec-2014
Posts: 220
What about copy-pasting the coin descriptions then? The following example is exactly, word by word, copy-paste of the description i personally gave to the coin! I can even spot my lousy mistakes in english in the text! As a master student writing my thesis right now, i know for a fact that plagiarism is a copyright crime and you can get expelled from the uni for it!

And i won´t even go into the pictures that i have uploaded from a site i got personnaly permission from a couple of months ago!

The coin that i have added to the catalog in Numista: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces102382.html
The coin that was copy-pasted on colnect: http://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/82849-1_Speciedaler_Christian_V-1670%7E1699_-_Christian_V-Norway

It´s so disrespectfull to just steal the work of others, even if they argue that copying pictures is not a copyright infringement, which it is! I spent a lot of hours researching and cataloging new coins on here, and when someone just comes and steals your work... well that´s just not right in any aspect!
Referee for Norway and Kingdom of Cyprus
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
We would need some bigger player to lawsuit them. Something like, Oslo Myntgalleri? If you can contact them, told them that Colnect stole their pictures... :° They need a shakeup. Lots of them.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
Stavros
Joined: 30-Dec-2014
Posts: 220
Don´t think they will act on it... As the colnect admins say, copyright infinctions are a complicated matter and in this case, a lawsuit across borders will probably make a lot of people to not proceed with it!

The funny part of this story though, is that they even used some really shitty pictures i uploaded temporarily until i find a better one! (8
Here´s an example: http://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/85305-2_Skilling_Frederik_III-1648%7E1670_-_Frederick_III-Norway
Referee for Norway and Kingdom of Cyprus
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
No one is going to sue Colnect unless 1) they have sustained significant monetary loss as a result of Colnect's activities, which they would have a hell of a time proving, or 2) expect to be awarded a significant amount, which they would never get even if the ruling was in their favor.
HoH
BryanJ
Joined: 31-Dec-2015
Posts: 324
The only basis of a possible copyright infringement suit would be if text was copy-pasted, as Stavros has shown, but how to prove who's the original author? Also, colnect is a real company with a reactive team, Numista is a stagnant website with an absent admin. Who'd win?

What's funny though is that for colnect it doesn't go both ways, as their terms of service says it twice:
"4.A. You agree not to distribute in any medium any part of the Website without Colnect's prior written authorization."
"5.E. You agree to not engage in the use, copying, or distribution of any of the Content other than expressly permitted herein."
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
Stagnant website? B.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
nthn
Joined: 2-Mar-2015
Posts: 1490
Quote: "Jarcek"​They even manipulate with the images using pohotoshop and so they can claim it is not stolen. :D
​Actually, there is someone here who is doing that also.
Referee for Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Italian states, Niue, Order of Malta, Pitcairn Islands, Samoa, American Samoa, Sarawak, Tibet and Zambia. All of my swap list is for sale.
pnightingale
Joined: 27-Jul-2011
Posts: 4615
The only real copyrights would belong to the mint who paid the engraver to produce the image on the coin, not to me because I took a photo of an image someone else produced. Most mints, certainly the US Mint, automatically place any images they produce into the public domain, why on earth would I try to subsequently claim any rights to it?

There might be a better case if the very useful edited photos showing the identifying characteristics of varieties or locations of mintmarks were being scraped. In those circumstances the creator has added value in the form of information rather than merely reproduced an existing public domain image..

I use the ©pnightingale tag on any photos I upload because it's nice to see some years later a coin that I used to own which may have been long ago swapped. I like to leave my own small footprints on the web for posterity. I really don't care a bit if anyone else wants to use them - feel free. It would be nice if they would leave the tag but not essential. If I felt that strongly I would use a watermark.

There's no good outcome to this fight. If "our side" wins, what have we achieved? Nada, except to create ill will and some inconvenience to a site we should be looking to collaborate with. An internecine war would be detrimental to the very hobby we are trying to expand.... does anyone not agree with this?

Given the massive size of each database its a certainty that both sides could source missing or better quality images from each other. The sensible approach would be to make a reciprocal agreement to allow images to be freely exchanged.

There's nothing wrong with a little healthy competition or pride in a site you are committed to. You will notice that while I have an account on both sites, I choose to be far more active on this one. Each site has it's own strengths and weaknesses but both make the numismatic world a better one. Working together instead of arguing would only benefit both memberships. It's clear that the waters are muddied right now and a few feathers ruffled. May I suggest that each party nominates a liaison team to quickly settle this dispute before things turn ugly and maybe move on to exploring other avenues of cooperation.
Non illegitimis carborundum est (don't let the bastards wear you down). Excellent advice for all coins.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking
nthn
Joined: 2-Mar-2015
Posts: 1490
But remember this is not exactly site vs site. This is about member's (copyrighted) images being stolen without their permission. And, regardless of your opinion on the subject, it IS still illegal. If a member is okay with their images being stolen, that it okay, but it is still illegal.
Referee for Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Italian states, Niue, Order of Malta, Pitcairn Islands, Samoa, American Samoa, Sarawak, Tibet and Zambia. All of my swap list is for sale.
BryanJ
Joined: 31-Dec-2015
Posts: 324
I don't think you'll be able to prove that using a picture someone else took of a coin is illegal, nor that members can claim any kind of copyright. It is a photograph of an existing object which you didn't create; that's akin to claiming copyright on Oliver Twist because you transcribed it from your paperback onto a word document. There may be work involved but you can't say you wrote it.
nthn
Joined: 2-Mar-2015
Posts: 1490
If you take the images, they are copyrighted under your name. If a photography company takes pictures of a skyscraper, they then own the picture, regardless of who own the tower. This works for anything. Even if the picture taker does not own or did not make the thing they are taking a picture of, they still own the copyright.
Referee for Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Italian states, Niue, Order of Malta, Pitcairn Islands, Samoa, American Samoa, Sarawak, Tibet and Zambia. All of my swap list is for sale.
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
Forgive me, but what competition? They systematically go through our catalogue and download our picture we secured permission to one by one.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
People keep forgetting that photograph exists as an object, ecen though it is digital. It is still personal creation of photographer and as such, one can claim copyright over it.

If family photos were collectables and somebody was downloading them from facebook or any else website, would that still not be copyrighted photo?
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
Purzelgnom
Joined: 19-Oct-2010
Posts: 39
Quote: "Jarcek"​********* Fould words **********

​I will be informing some sites they stole pictures from, and I can only advise you to either ask them for removal of your pictures by using their email below... or fill out the lawsuit. They are obviously quite mad, using one blog-post (which has a dislaimer of NOT-being written by lawyer) as a source for copyright policy...

​They send me this email:

Colnect offers collectors from around the world extensive catalogs for free. The catalogs are created in a wiki-like fashion as described on http://colnect.com/help/collecting/more_collectibles
​Many collectors contribute information to Colnect's catalogs and many more enjoy this information which helps collectors know more about what interests them.
​Collectors contributing to Colnect agreed to our "Terms of Service" which include clear instructions protecting copyrights.
​Colnect abides to the Israeli copyrights law which, similar to other copyrights laws, protects original creations. Factual information, such as the size of a banknote or weight of a coin, cannot be protected. Copying an existing creation which has copyrights, such as when scanning a banknote, does not grant copyrights to the person making a copy.

​If there's any concern that copyrights have been infringed, please send us exact details and we will do our best to remove any infringement as quickly as possible.
​Here are the details needed for each and every item which is suspected of infringement:
​* Creation type
​* Name, id number and full mailing address of the person claiming to have copyrights over the creation.
​* The date when the creation was created and the method that was used to create it.
​* Declaration of the person claiming to have copyrights stating he/she is holding the copyrights of the creation. This declaration should be signed and the signature verified by a lawyer.
​* Link to the page on Colnect where the creation is seen.

​In addition, if the claim refers to a picture please include:
​* Direct link to the image itself on Colnect
​* The original image file (without processing)

​If claiming infringement of over 10 creations, we may supply you with a spreadsheet file where all those details could be filled more easily.

​The information provided here isn't legally binding, doesn't constitute a legal advice and should be used only for quickly resolving misunderstandings so that all parties involved are pleased. We wish you happy collecting and hope you'll be enjoying Colnect.

​Further communication may be directed to copyrights_report@colnect.com
​With the effort I can go to the court right away.
The colnect.com site has no imprint.
According to whois, the domain is registered with godaddy.com.
The entry there
Registrant Name: Amir Colnect
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: Mazunte
Registrant City: Oaxaca
Registrant State/Province: Oaxaca
Registrant Postal Code: 44444
Registrant Country: MX
Registrant Phone: +52.3317510771
Is not sufficient for a company web site.
I will file directly with goddady.com for the copyright infringement.
http://de.godaddy.com/agreements/showdoc.aspx?pageid=TRADMARK_COPY

I hope the google translator is enough
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
Are you prepared to be counter-sued?
HoH
pnightingale
Joined: 27-Jul-2011
Posts: 4615
Stop this madness.
Non illegitimis carborundum est (don't let the bastards wear you down). Excellent advice for all coins.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking
nthn
Joined: 2-Mar-2015
Posts: 1490
Quote: "pnightingale"​Stop this madness.
​That is exactly what we are trying to do! (;08)
Referee for Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Italian states, Niue, Order of Malta, Pitcairn Islands, Samoa, American Samoa, Sarawak, Tibet and Zambia. All of my swap list is for sale.
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
This is like chasing your neighborhood recycling truck and trying to stop it by sticking a branch into its wheels. :O
HoH
smoked_caramel
Joined: 3-Jul-2012
Posts: 1197
Quote: "Houseofham"​This is like chasing your neighborhood recycling truck and trying to stop it by sticking a branch into its wheels. :O
​LOL! Good one! :D
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 1376
Hi,

just for what's it's worth.

When I make an image from one of my coins, I'm sure somebody else in the world also have that same coin and could also make a photo of it. So in my opinion everybody can use my photo as they please, since it can be made by plenty of other people!

Now when I have two (or more) coins of the same type and year and they are different (variants) and I figure it out and document it, then I created something, although other people might have written about the variety, but never set up a documentation with images. This something I created I sign, if helped by somebody else, his or their names are also entered into the documentation. Now if somebody wants to use my documentation, they are welcome, since I created it for the common use of all collectors!

I'll never get paid for any of my images or documentations, but it's my pleasure to try to spread the little knowledge I have in this domain.... so forget about copyrights, please? I even supply SWCC with my images and findings for the good of all of us!

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/
nthn
Joined: 2-Mar-2015
Posts: 1490
Quote: "Sjoelund"​Hi,

​just for what's it's worth.

​When I make an image from one of my coins, I'm sure somebody else in the world also have that same coin and could also make a photo of it. So in my opinion everybody can use my photo as they please, since it can be made by plenty of other people!

​Now when I have two (or more) coins of the same type and year and they are different (variants) and I figure it out and document it, then I created something, although other people might have written about the variety, but never set up a documentation with images. This something I created I sign, if helped by somebody else, his or their names are also entered into the documentation. Now if somebody wants to use my documentation, they are welcome, since I created it for the common use of all collectors!

​I'll never get paid for any of my images or documentations, but it's my pleasure to try to spread the little knowledge I have in this domain.... so forget about copyrights, please? I even supply SWCC with my images and findings for the good of all of us!

​Ole
​As much as we would all like to do that, it is illegal.
Referee for Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Italian states, Niue, Order of Malta, Pitcairn Islands, Samoa, American Samoa, Sarawak, Tibet and Zambia. All of my swap list is for sale.
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 1376
Hi,

Sorry? I'm talking about my images and my documentations of my coins, they are all legal and they are not copyrighted by me!

How can that be illegal?

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/
nthn
Joined: 2-Mar-2015
Posts: 1490
Quote: "Sjoelund"​Hi,
So in my opinion everybody can use my photo as they please, since it can be made by plenty of other people!

​Ole
​I thought you where using you as as example in saying that everyone should use everyone elses pictures, since it could have been made by a lot of other people.
Referee for Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Italian states, Niue, Order of Malta, Pitcairn Islands, Samoa, American Samoa, Sarawak, Tibet and Zambia. All of my swap list is for sale.
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 1638
Is there no way to make the pictures inaccessible on Numista, by blocking the "download image" function?
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17
LCW1991
Joined: 14-Nov-2014
Posts: 131
Wait, should the author (or photographer) himself to determine if his copyright has been infringed?

How come someone else making "lawsuits" on behalf of them?

Should Numista first notify the original author first and let them decide if further actions should be taken?

I'm using both Numista and Colnect. Sometimes I have a situation I add a type of coin to both platforms, of course I will use the same picture I scan. So, you found the same picture on both websites, but does it equal to copyright infringement?

Of course, if some authors are not happy what copyright-violators done here, they have the right to request to delete the content, or add credits.
Indomini16
Joined: 12-Jun-2017
Posts: 157
I saw this topic few weeks ago.
End of Jully I fullfill the Template to add this coin to Numista.
It have been approved the 02 of August.

This coin is not really particular but before I add it to Numista I looked on Colnect and NGC and I didn't find any pictures. So I know Colnect had no picture at this time.

We are only 8 days after I implemented the coin to Numista and MY picture is already on Colnect !
How can it be possible ? It's look like a boot who upload Numista pictures in batch ...
Always look on the bright side of life !
Stavros
Joined: 30-Dec-2014
Posts: 220
Added this coin https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces119419.html a couple of weeks ago here on Numista and two days later it was copy-pasted on colnect... pictures, description and everything... they dont even try to hide that they are copying stuff from us...

I have identified one of the members who actively does this, so we should contact him maybe. All other approaches have failed until the moment....
Referee for Norway and Kingdom of Cyprus
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
Quote: "Stavros"​Added this coin https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces119419.html a couple of weeks ago here on Numista and two days later it was copy-pasted on colnect... pictures, description and everything... they dont even try to hide that they are copying stuff from us...

​I have identified one of the members who actively does this, so we should contact him maybe. All other approaches have failed until the moment....
​This coin was submitted to Colnect by karpuha5577 on Aug 4. The description appears to be copy-pasted from Numista. The pictures, however, come from elsewhere - they are clearly higher resolution than what I see on Numista.
Quote: "Indomini16"​I saw this topic few weeks ago.
​End of Jully I fullfill the Template to add this coin to Numista.
​It have been approved the 02 of August.

​This coin is not really particular but before I add it to Numista I looked on Colnect and NGC and I didn't find any pictures. So I know Colnect had no picture at this time.

​We are only 8 days after I implemented the coin to Numista and MY picture is already on Colnect !
​How can it be possible ? It's look like a boot who upload Numista pictures in batch ...
Pics were submitted by the same person on the same date. The listing itself has been in the Colnect catalog since July of 2016.
HoH
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
Quote: "Houseofham"
Quote: "Stavros"​Added this coin https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces119419.html a couple of weeks ago here on Numista and two days later it was copy-pasted on colnect... pictures, description and everything... they dont even try to hide that they are copying stuff from us...
​​
​​I have identified one of the members who actively does this, so we should contact him maybe. All other approaches have failed until the moment....
​​This coin was submitted to Colnect by karpuha5577 on Aug 4. The description appears to be copy-pasted from Numista. The pictures, however, come from elsewhere - they are clearly higher resolution than what I see on Numista.
​Yes, they did the search for higher resolution.

So they stole it from here: http://politiken.dk/indland/art5982336/Regentparrets-guldbryllup-fejres-med-ny-erindringsm%C3%B8nt
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
So, is anyone going to file a complain with Colnect, or sue them, or demand that Colnect ban that user, or are you just going to grumble about it and let it go, as usual?

Someone, please, do something. How long can this go on?! The people demand justice! *chuckle*
HoH
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
Quote: "Houseofham"​So, is anyone going to file a complain with Colnect, or sue them, or demand that Colnect ban that user, or are you just going to grumble about it and let it go, as usual?

​Someone, please, do something. How long can this go on?! The people demand justice! *chuckle*
​I just hope you are not one of those copying those images. :)
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
Quote: "Jarcek"
Quote: "Houseofham"​So, is anyone going to file a complain with Colnect, or sue them, or demand that Colnect ban that user, or are you just going to grumble about it and let it go, as usual?
​​
​​Someone, please, do something. How long can this go on?! The people demand justice! *chuckle*
​​
​​I just hope you are not one of those copying those images. :)
​Nope, I am not. :)

But here is a thought: Numista only hosts pictures that someone else took and gave permission to use. No coin pictures could have been stolen by Colnect from Numista because Numista does not own any.
HoH
nthn
Joined: 2-Mar-2015
Posts: 1490
There are lots individual members who have had their pictures taken. Colnect doesn't care whether they are personal pictures or approved websites.
Referee for Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Italian states, Niue, Order of Malta, Pitcairn Islands, Samoa, American Samoa, Sarawak, Tibet and Zambia. All of my swap list is for sale.
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
Quote: "nthn"​There are lots individual members who have had their pictures taken. Colnect doesn't care whether they are personal pictures or approved websites.
Colnect has a form to report when that type of thing happens. If you are on of those members who this happened to, please use it.
HoH
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
It is not about one user's pictures, but about them copying everything we add, without taking copyright into account and this they (you) deny.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
Quote: "Jarcek"​It is not about one user's pictures, but about them copying everything we add, without taking copyright into account and this they (you) deny.

Excuse me if I take your "everything" with a grain of salt. If one (or two, or a dozen) of Colnect members is involved in copying content from Numista, you can't blame Colnect for it, especially when NO ONE takes the time to report it to them, so they can verify and take steps to fix it. Yes, it will have to be done for each coin individually, because "everything" is done on a case by case basis, but you have to start somewhere. Perhaps, if you do it once, it's not going to make much impact. If you do it 100 times, they'll have to take it more seriously, as it will require more of their time to process it. Perhaps, they will even do something to prevent it from happening in the future.

Now, I'm not a Colnect representative, I'm just one of their members who also happens to be a member here and not be afraid to examine both sides' approaches to this complex topic. But it doesn't take a genius to realize that if you do not take it seriously, neither will they.
HoH
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4082
Yes, I requested deletion of about 50 coin images from their database. Got rejected as nonsense even after presenting proofs in most cases. Main admin deleted my threads on their forum about this problem.

Same admin told Xavier that he will do nothing about it. Other individual members got banned from colnect when they came up with the same issue. I am glad you are examining something you know nothing of. ``-
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.

Furthermore, I deem that Colnect is stealing Numista pictures.
Indomini16
Joined: 12-Jun-2017
Posts: 157
Quote: "Jarcek"​It is not about one user's pictures, but about them copying everything we add, without taking copyright into account and this they (you) deny.

​I agree on that !
In my case they had the coin in there database before Numista, after I add it to Numista, they took my picture to upload it on there website !
It's not a particular coin and I can not imagine that someone took it to upload it, it's look more like a auto-boot action !
Always look on the bright side of life !
Stavros
Joined: 30-Dec-2014
Posts: 220
Quote: "Houseofham"
Quote: "nthn"​There are lots individual members who have had their pictures taken. Colnect doesn't care whether they are personal pictures or approved websites.
​Colnect has a form to report when that type of thing happens. If you are on of those members who this happened to, please use it.
​that worked wonderful for me! Got a standard answer that nothing was wrong with the listing and then got banned from the website...

The thing that bothers me most is not that colnect uses pictures from Numista. We are all a small community of collectors and both of our websites have the same goal. To provide a free and comprehensive catalogue of world coins. Copy pasting from one webpage to another does not offer anything for us. On top of that, it is really disrespectfull for all the work done by others, by blatantly copy pasting things. You can argue that this is not illegal, but if you do actually read european copyright laws, it is illegal.

For me though, it would be enough if the administrators at Colnect did the extra step to avoid these missunderstandings. Asking nicely for permission for use of pictures is not that hard! ;)
Referee for Norway and Kingdom of Cyprus
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
Quote: "Jarcek"​Yes, I requested deletion of about 50 coin images from their database. Got rejected as nonsense even after presenting proofs in most cases. Main admin deleted my threads on their forum about this problem.

​Same admin told Xavier that he will do nothing about it. Other individual members got banned from colnect when they came up with the same issue. I am glad you are examining something you know nothing of. ``-
​In that case, take the next logical step and sue them.
HoH
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 1638
häHere's a solution (well, at an attempt to one).
When adding your photos here, first add a waterstamp/tag on the picture. Colnect does not approve pictures with watermarns/tags on them, so then they won't be able to use our pictures!

I added banknote pictures with my sign on, but they said I first had to remove the sign and then re-add it.
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17
Euromunt
Joined: 20-Aug-2012
Posts: 494
Quote: "Houseofham"
Quote: "Jarcek"​Yes, I requested deletion of about 50 coin images from their database. Got rejected as nonsense even after presenting proofs in most cases. Main admin deleted my threads on their forum about this problem.
​​
​​Same admin told Xavier that he will do nothing about it. Other individual members got banned from colnect when they came up with the same issue. I am glad you are examining something you know nothing of. ``-
​​In that case, take the next logical step and sue them.
​Next logical step is a notice and takedown procedure.
Subha Barua
Joined: 8-Dec-2016
Posts: 448
Quote: "Euromunt"
Quote: "Houseofham"

Quote: "Jarcek"​Yes, I requested deletion of about 50 coin images from their database. Got rejected as nonsense even after presenting proofs in most cases. Main admin deleted my threads on their forum about this problem.
​​​
​​​Same admin told Xavier that he will do nothing about it. Other individual members got banned from colnect when they came up with the same issue. I am glad you are examining something you know nothing of. ``-
​​​In that case, take the next logical step and sue them.
​​Next logical step is a notice and takedown procedure.
​It's horrible, they are having great of steling pictures there, just by copying, saving and retriving. Even some Finnish coins, pictures are stealed.

And Albania?

That doesn't see at all differnet from Numista one.Infact they are kinda intertnet threat and just thieves, and even ehat? They disagree of using the pictures, and how a foolish and senseless meassage they reported, ha ha.
In that case, wisely the steps should be taken.
Tempus fugit...
The best coin ever...

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3653.html
Louis-Phippe I 5 Francs silver of Kingdom of France (2nd restoration)
Subha Barua
Joined: 8-Dec-2016
Posts: 448
What a shame and creepy they are, nonsense. I think they webs ite will be closed one-day,:°
Tempus fugit...
The best coin ever...

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3653.html
Louis-Phippe I 5 Francs silver of Kingdom of France (2nd restoration)
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
Quote: "Euromunt"
Quote: "Houseofham"

Quote: "Jarcek"​Yes, I requested deletion of about 50 coin images from their database. Got rejected as nonsense even after presenting proofs in most cases. Main admin deleted my threads on their forum about this problem.
​​​
​​​Same admin told Xavier that he will do nothing about it. Other individual members got banned from colnect when they came up with the same issue. I am glad you are examining something you know nothing of. ``-
​​​In that case, take the next logical step and sue them.
​​Next logical step is a notice and takedown procedure.

​There is already a notice and takedown procedure that is clearly not working or, rather, no one wants to follow it.

Posting on Colnect forums with links to 40+ coins or commenting on individual coins listings is NOT that procedure and most likely will get you banned and your posts removed. If you've contacted Colnect admins before, you've been provided a form to fill out. I'm sure that form was intentionally designed to make it difficult to provide all the required information necessary to serve as proof for the copyright/intellectual property claim, so it serves more as an obstacle/deterrent than a tool for resolving anything.

So, yeah, you can either drop the issue or take it to court.
HoH
Subha Barua
Joined: 8-Dec-2016
Posts: 448
​In that case dear HouseOfHam, why don't you do the thing? Why should we drop it, we are agaist it and must fight against it, just my proving them the pictures through the mail.
Tempus fugit...
The best coin ever...

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3653.html
Louis-Phippe I 5 Francs silver of Kingdom of France (2nd restoration)
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
​I'm sorry, I have trouble comprehending your posts. Perhaps someone with a better grasp of English can answer your question.
HoH
Subha Barua
Joined: 8-Dec-2016
Posts: 448
​I just want to say that we can really prove to colnect.com that they are using our pictures, and how? We must proof to them about matching the pictures in email ,the work of admins. After that some of the Numista members might also appeal in favour of us in colnect.
Tempus fugit...
The best coin ever...

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3653.html
Louis-Phippe I 5 Francs silver of Kingdom of France (2nd restoration)
Houseofham
Joined: 26-Feb-2015
Posts: 644
It has already been demonstrated that Colnect refuses to acknowledge any claims that do not follow their procedure. If you think that e-mailing them is going to make any difference, you're welcome to try, but I wouldn't get my hopes high.

If you want to read more about what it would take to win in court, I will refer you to this thread: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic61454.html

ps: If anyone knows, who sued Numista? Did it actually go to court, or was it just a "threatening letter" and the whole thing got settled before the hearings took place? If it went to court, what was the ruling? Were any damages awarded? Or, is all that info confidential, per terms of the settlement?
HoH
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 1638
Maybe Numista should insert a Copyright on the whole page with a statement like "©Xavier: No portion of this website, including pages, texts, images or codes, may be copied, reproduced, published or distributed in any medium without the expressed permission of the copyright holder." or something like that? By copying from us will then be breaking the copyright laws.
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17
pejounet Numista team, Moderator
Joined: 30-Jan-2017
Posts: 726
Quote: "ngdawa"​Maybe Numista should insert a Copyright on the whole page with a statement like "©Xavier: No portion of this website, including pages, texts, images or codes, may be copied, reproduced, published or distributed in any medium without the expressed permission of the copyright holder." or something like that? By copying from us will then be breaking the copyright laws.
Will check with Xavier, but my technical understanding is that a picture itself does not belong to Numista but to people publishing the picture on Numista or who gave the permission to use picture or its reproduction (you, British Museum, Heritage Auctions, etc.) i.e. no ownership transfer.

Personal note: I'm not convinced this would prevent anyone from taking pictures. In the Colnect case (as it's the title of the thread) they state the only pictures Colnect will reject are the ones having a watermark...but photoshop magic was around and some pictures on Colnect were proved to have watermark that were just removed before uploading pictures.
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