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Egypt 1 pound president Nasser (1970)

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DavidB
Joined: 20-Apr-2015
Posts: 11
Hello everyone,

I've got here an Egyptian 1 pound coin from 1970, with the effigy of president Nasser (so it's the commemorative coin).
The numista coin page (https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces20324.html) tells me it has a diameter of 40 mm and is struck in medal alignment.
Though, my coin has a diameter of only 38,65 and is struck in coin alignment! I add some pictures.



Does someone recognises that as a variety or something?

Thanks!
David
AmerSalmeh Numista team
Joined: 29-Jul-2014
Posts: 1133
This is interesting.

From a slabbed coin on ebay, I can see it's for sure in medal alignment
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/302435302573?vectorid=229466&lgeo=1&item=302435302573&rmvSB=true

The coin isn't really rare, so I don't think it's a fake coin, but I'm no expert.

I will be happy to add this as a variety once I hear some other opinions hopefully. thanks
Catalog Master Referee & Referee for most Arab countries
https://www.instagram.com/amer.coins
Amer Salmeh
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 1279
Mine is medal alignment too.
Diameter: 40.14 mm
Weight: 25.05 gr.



That your coin is coin alignment doesn't bother me that much (there are more coins with another orientation than in the catalogue), but that the diameter of your coin is only 38.65 mm, that's suspicious or at least peculiar.
What's the weight of your coin?
DavidB
Joined: 20-Apr-2015
Posts: 11
I don't have a scale that weighs accurately on tenths or hundreds of a gram. So I used a scale from the kitchen and that one says 18 gram. But it could be 20 or a little more too, probably.
I just checked this: if the normal coin weighs 25,2 gram (for 1269,235 as the surface because π * 20,1^2 = 1269,235), a coin with a diameter 38,65 should weigh 23,3 gram (the thickness of mine is also 2,2).
The explanation: π*19,33^2 = 1173,853. That 1173,853 is the x in 25,2/1269,235*x. The result is 23,3 gram.
I hope my calculations and my reasoning are correct. :)
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 1279
Hahaha David, I didn't check your calculation but I assume it's mathematically correct.

The problem however is not your calculation but your diameter and your weight. There is always a deviation in weight and that might be significant but the deviation in diameter is always very very small (except for hammered or cast coins) so your diameter is very suspicious. Also your weight doesn't match at all. Even with your not accurate kitchen scale, the difference is way too much.
I really hope your coin is genuine but I have my doubts.
Anyone else heard about a variety with smaller diameter and weight?
AmerSalmeh Numista team
Joined: 29-Jul-2014
Posts: 1133
Can you post clear pictures of both sides to compare?
Catalog Master Referee & Referee for most Arab countries
https://www.instagram.com/amer.coins
Amer Salmeh
smoked_caramel
Joined: 3-Jul-2012
Posts: 1185
It may be just the angle of the photos but looks like the denticles on the top of the reverse are very weak or missing. May be an indication of a fake.
AmerSalmeh Numista team
Joined: 29-Jul-2014
Posts: 1133
Also, have you done any silver tests?
Catalog Master Referee & Referee for most Arab countries
https://www.instagram.com/amer.coins
Amer Salmeh
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 1279
Quote: "smoked_caramel"​It may be just the angle of the photos but looks like the denticles on the top of the reverse are very weak or missing. May be an indication of a fake.


Yes indeed, no "denticles" on the top and the rest of the "denticles" look much more like beads (click to enlarge).
More and more I believe your coin is not the real thing. But I'm not an expert.
DavidB
Joined: 20-Apr-2015
Posts: 11
Here are the pictures :)



DavidB
Joined: 20-Apr-2015
Posts: 11
Today I did some silver tests.
I'm happy to announce there is certainly silver in it! It's really special to see ice melting so quickly!

Some more details: I did three tests for now.
Test one: magnetic or not. The coin stuck to my magnet, which is not very very strong I think. But of course, there are other metals in the coin thus sticking to a magnet does not say everything.
Test two: the ring-test. I got a very nice clear "ting", which however did not last. But I think that's normal, because i held the coin between my fingers when I tapped it.
Test three: ice melting. Indeed, the ice did melt immediately. It began real quick, and I saw it continuing but slower. I think, again, that it's normal, since there's a layer of water between the coin and the ice, blocking a bit the thermal surface.
kommodore
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 2682
It's a fake chinese coin, not silver, it will rust away in 1 day if you leave it in water.
If you look close enough you can see small dots of rust on it.
There's not even 1% that's real.
DavidB
Joined: 20-Apr-2015
Posts: 11
Could that have been dirt too?
I tried and succeeded to gum it away...
yvon
Joined: 9-Jun-2017
Posts: 7
If this coin is atrackted to a magnet it is for sure one of this Chinese fake"coins".
Under no circumstances silver is atrackted by a magnet, but the steel inside likes the magnet.
Only the outside is very thin silverplated.
I bought a Ghana 10 shilling coin who is fake also and it looks like yours; a little bit worn and dull.
I stamped it whit "FAKE"so it will not be able to disappoint somebody else.
...you can run,  but you can't hide...
jokinen
Joined: 10-Feb-2013
Posts: 1335
Sorry mate, but everything looks like you got a Chinese knock-off. Then again, it better happen to you with this price category than with a lot more expensive one.

Now that you're warned you will better know what to avoid.
DavidB
Joined: 20-Apr-2015
Posts: 11
Apparently... Maybe I should just sell it for the little silver that's in it...
I actually did not buy it myself, but exchanged it for a 1980 Belgium 500 frank.
jokinen
Joined: 10-Feb-2013
Posts: 1335
Quote: "DavidB"​Apparently... Maybe I should just sell it for the little silver that's in it...
​I actually did not buy it myself, but exchanged it for a 1980 Belgium 500 frank.

Not too much lost then. I heard that the silver plated 1980 Belgium 500 Francs coins sell for less than 5 EUR.

You could try to sell yours as a fake but it won't be worth much. I don't think there's much silver in it if any. Better keep it as a good example on how to recognize fakes of big silver coins.

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