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Egyptian pound: one currency or several currencies?

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DavidB
Joined: 20-Apr-2015
Posts: 18
Hi everybody,

Here's a little explanation on how I systematise my collection: I sort out my coins on currency, so all American dollar coins are together, all Swedish krone coins are together. The thing is, I have to know when a country decided to change currency, in order not to mix the coins of two currencies. E.g. Australian dollar coins and Australian pound coins are not together in my collection. The same for both Turkish lira currencies: coins from before 2005 (old Turkish lira) and after 2005 (new Turkish lira) are separated.
But Egypt is giving me some issues: I can't find anywhere if the pound that's actually used is still the same currency as the one launched in 1834. It's still the same name, but a lot of South-American countries did change currency while the name did not change, or maybe adding to it "new", to drop it some years afterwards.

So, of course Egyptian pound coins itself have changed during the last 170 years, but is it true that it's still the same currency?

Thanks!
David
jokinen
Joined: 10-Feb-2013
Posts: 1336
It is still the same currency indeed. As far as I know there were no large scale monetary reforms in Egypt except devaluations and debasement.

See also the WCC topic on Egypt I wrote quite a while ago:

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic41582.html
DavidB
Joined: 20-Apr-2015
Posts: 18
Thank you for confirming this! :)
DavidB
Joined: 20-Apr-2015
Posts: 18
Oh, and one additional question: do you know where to find if a certain Egyptian coin was demonetised? It would be helpful because I have some coins which are not yet in the catalogue.
jokinen
Joined: 10-Feb-2013
Posts: 1336
My last trip to Egypt was in 2006 and back then I only saw a 1993 25 Piastres. The 2004/5 series was not yet in circulation back then.

I do not know exactly but as older coins have really low monetary value I expect all of them to still be valid but that nobody uses them for payment anymore. A Euro is now 21 Egyptian Pounds.

Which Egyptian coins do you have?
DavidB
Joined: 20-Apr-2015
Posts: 18
Well, the ones that were not in the catalogue resulted to be Syrian...
I found for most of them on Numista that they have been demonetised, but it wasn't marked for my 1 pound 2008 (which I suppose is indeed still in circulation), 50 piastres 2008 and 2010 (also probably still in circulation), 20 piastres 1992 (maybe this one isn't anymore in circulation), and 5 piastres 2008 (also probably still in circulation).
But in fact, I'm searching for a website where is marked which coins are and which are not demonetised. Normally, you find it on the Central Bank's website but on the Egyptian one, I only find notes, no coins. Maybe there are coins on the Egyptian version, but I can't read Arabic so I don't know.
Jesse11
Joined: 30-Dec-2015
Posts: 811
I just added a few Egyptian coins to my collection and noticed that in Numista the Egyptian pound was recently split into six different currencies. Is this not an accurate reflection of reality? Why was it reorganized that way?
DavidB
Joined: 20-Apr-2015
Posts: 18
I think it's rather six different periods.
The official name of the state changed (due to a change of "composition": kingdom, sultanate, republic, ...). Apparently, Numista can't let continue a currency over a change of issuer.
That's what I think, at least.
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 1333
kind of a pain in the neck, isn't it? Why split every country into parts? Are we historians or coin collectors? Numista clearly wants us to become
1 historians and then
2 coin collectors
I'm strongly against that, but then I'm only me! Really I can't bother to look into the different periods of a country, since the country as such didn't change a yota.
Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/
nthn
Joined: 2-Mar-2015
Posts: 1387
It was very useful for Italian states to split the currencies at some point because of the debasement over the years, because the currency lasted over 500 years. Therefore, the coins of the same denomination in the 17th century were worth double what the ones in the 15th century. It would be a mess to assign them their real value according to year, so we just created more currencies.
Referee for Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Italian states, Niue, Order of Malta, Pitcairn Islands, Samoa, American Samoa, Sarawak, and Zambia. All of my swap list is for sale.
AmerSalmeh Numista team
Joined: 29-Jul-2014
Posts: 1134
Quote: "Sjoelund"​kind of a pain in the neck, isn't it? Why split every country into parts? Are we historians or coin collectors? Numista clearly wants us to become
​1 historians and then
​2 coin collectors
​I'm strongly against that, but then I'm only me! Really I can't bother to look into the different periods of a country, since the country as such didn't change a yota.
​Ole
​PS: Krause does that too

+ in the case of Egypt, country did change.
Catalog Master Referee & Referee for most Arab countries
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Amer Salmeh
AmerSalmeh Numista team
Joined: 29-Jul-2014
Posts: 1134
Quote: "DavidB"​Well, the ones that were not in the catalogue resulted to be Syrian...
​I found for most of them on Numista that they have been demonetised, but it wasn't marked for my 1 pound 2008 (which I suppose is indeed still in circulation), 50 piastres 2008 and 2010 (also probably still in circulation), 20 piastres 1992 (maybe this one isn't anymore in circulation), and 5 piastres 2008 (also probably still in circulation).
​But in fact, I'm searching for a website where is marked which coins are and which are not demonetised. Normally, you find it on the Central Bank's website but on the Egyptian one, I only find notes, no coins. Maybe there are coins on the Egyptian version, but I can't read Arabic so I don't know.
​I'm also lost about what egyptian coins are demonetized and which are not. I think I read somewhere that millieme coins are demonetized , and I believe the most (if not only) coins in circulation are 50 piastres and above denominations, but no idea if earlier ones are still legal tender or not. on Numista, they are randomly ticked probably, and I can't change that before I get some solid info of which I still don't have.

For the Syrian coins, this is because there was a political union between Egypt and Syria under United Arab Republic (UAR - not to be confused with UAE for United Arab Emirates), hence using same coat of arms and similar designs. Egyptian coins (not all) had the word "misr" in Arabic under state name, while syrian coins had the arabic word for "Syrian" in the denomination like "syrian qirsh"
Catalog Master Referee & Referee for most Arab countries
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Amer Salmeh
jokinen
Joined: 10-Feb-2013
Posts: 1336
Sjoelund, for those that can easily read the Arab script it is very apparent that Egyptian coins did change the country legend to UAR. Westerners only see some vermicelli characters and cannot tell the difference except for the differently styled eagle. If the legends would have used the Roman script I would expect much more coin collectors to recognise this as a separate era.

The other splits were done just to make it easier to browse through hundreds of coins. I would have preferred slightly less eras and make a split in 1885 when the Para was discontinued and the Millim introduced but this way I still like it a lot better than the bulky one where 150 years of coin history were lumped into one section.
AmerSalmeh Numista team
Joined: 29-Jul-2014
Posts: 1134
Quote: "jokinen"​Sjoelund, for those that can easily read the Arab script it is very apparent that Egyptian coins did change the country legend to UAR. Westerners only see some vermicelli characters and cannot tell the difference except for the differently styled eagle. If the legends would have used the Roman script I would expect much more coin collectors to recognise this as a separate era.

​The other splits were done just to make it easier to browse through hundreds of coins. I would have preferred slightly less eras and make a split in 1885 when the Para was discontinued and the Millim introduced but this way I still like it a lot better than the bulky one where 150 years of coin history were lumped into one section.
​Agree, additionally the territory did change as well.
for example, and aside from UAR, the Khedivate of Egypt included parts of Libya, South Sudan, Sudan and Somalia.

As for the separation at 1885, it wasn't possible. where would you have listed this coin below?
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces25376.html
Catalog Master Referee & Referee for most Arab countries
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Amer Salmeh
jokinen
Joined: 10-Feb-2013
Posts: 1336
You are right, an 1885 split is not ideal :-)

I actually own that coin!
andrewdotcoza
Joined: 29-Sep-2013
Posts: 80
Quote: "Sjoelund"​kind of a pain in the neck, isn't it? Why split every country into parts? Are we historians or coin collectors? Numista clearly wants us to become
​1 historians and then
​2 coin collectors
​I'm strongly against that, but then I'm only me! Really I can't bother to look into the different periods of a country, since the country as such didn't change a yota.
​Ole
​I have to say, I agree with Ole here, but I have already made this point on another thread in the forum. I've tried to live with it for a few weeks now but this splitting of the Egyptian Pound into multiple subdivisions is a great disappointment to me.

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