Henry III long cross silver Penny 1247-72? [solved]

8 posts
I think that I have identified this correctly but would appreciate verification from someone that knows more about hammered coins than I do (I am also not sure about the denomination)

Roy

silver
Diameter 15.5mm
weight: 1.3g

Hi Roy, I'm happy to get some news from you :)

It seems that there are also coins with different wording on reverse
Referee of south atlantic islands
I wish there was a way that I could mark this thread as'unread' and come back to it later (maybe there is but I don't know of it?) I will check my Spink later and come back to you.
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon.

Coin catalogue referee for England, United Kingdom & pre-Union South Africa.
Banknote catalogue referee for England & United Kingdom.
Quote: "Frenchlover"​Hi Roy, I'm happy to get some news from you :)

​It seems that there are also coins with different wording on reverse
​Thanks - It;s good to be back on numista.com for a while.

I have rediscovered 20-30 hammered coins that I forgot that I had and I am enjoying identifying them (some of them are pretty worn though!). It is not my area of expertise and as you rightly point out there are many varieties.

All the best to you
Roy
Quote: "Frenchlover"​Hi Roy, I'm happy to get some news from you :)

​It seems that there are also coins with different wording on reverse
​The reverse legend is the moneyer and mint, usually in the form "(moneyer) ON (mint)". In Frenchlover's example, the reverse reads IOh / SON / LVN / DEN ("Joh[anne]s on London").

Roy's coin is giving me a bit more trouble. The reverse legend is puzzling. It looks like RIC / ARD / ONL / CIV. The "AR" of "Ricard" is ligate (as is "ON") and the "D" has an extra crescent-shaped punch, making it look like "IO". The obverse type is class 5, probably class 5c. Using North's tables, we find that a Ricard produced class 5 long-cross pennies at Canterbury, Durham and London. It could be that LCIV is L[ONDON] CIV[ITAS]. It could also be blundering typical of a contemporary imitation. There is likewise the possibility that I'm misreading or misinterpreting something. Hope this helps.
Hi Roy, I think you are spot on with your identification and as Frenchlover rightly said, there are many reverse varieties depending upon the mint name and moneyer. Since your obverse portrait shows a facing crowned portrait of the king holding a sceptre narrows it down a bit to either class 4 or 5 (1250-72). Then if we look at the obverse legend 'hЄNRICVS RЄX III', we can see that it starts at 10 o'clock which would make it class 5, Sp#1367-Sp#1374. Unfortunately, there are about a dozen different sub-types within class 5 so this is where my lack of experience in spotting portrait varieties stops me from narrowing it down any further. I'm also struggling with the reverse legend. We would expect to see either just the moneyer's name of both the mint name and the moneyer but again there are so many varieties, with my Spink listing some 20 different mints. If you are looking to log your coin on the catalogue, we have a listing that covers all sceptre portraits from class 4a to 5h here https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces33161.html and hopefully there is a member who knows these pennies better than I do and can help narrow down the precise identification - all the best :)
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon.

Coin catalogue referee for England, United Kingdom & pre-Union South Africa.
Banknote catalogue referee for England & United Kingdom.
Quote: "radrick007"​I wish there was a way that I could mark this thread as'unread' and come back to it later (maybe there is but I don't know of it?) I will check my Spink later and come back to you.
​Bookmark it, that's what I normally do ;)

I know the headache of hammered all too well, glad it was solved.
Restoration addict : Verdigris Removal : Zinc White spot removal : Iron Rust Removal : Silver brooch/necklace mount Removal
Thanks to everyone for your help.

It's great that numista.com gives access to collectors that have expertise over such a wide range of numismatic topics

Roy

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