Wanted 1983 Far and Near Beads Variety Canada Small Cents in PL, SP, and Proof!

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If you collect Canada Small Cents, then this should not be too hard to explain. I have both varieties for the 1983 in Business Strike BU or Mint State (MS). What I am trying to find is both varieties in Proof-Like (PL), Specimen Strike (SP), and Proof (PR). I cannot buy these on eBay from the dealers because they do not sell them as a variety set like they do the Business Strike coins. The dealers use stock photos, so you are forced to ask which variety they have in stock. Either they say they have only one variety in stock or tell you they cannot tell the difference. Well, if you have both versions side by side you can tell the difference. I use my MS set to check. What I want to do is either buy or trade for the two varieties in PL, SP, and/or PR.

Does anyone have these for trade or sell?

Please post photos showing each variety, and remember, I do not want the standard business strike bu coins from bank rolls and mint bags, I want the coins taken from the three different mint sets, PL, SP, and PR.
May I suggest you try "several" dealers as this is a very, specialized request.

Canadian Cents are my primary goal but, by year and business strike only. I don't know of any other members that collect these as a specific goal. Perhaps some type collectors.

I wish you the best of luck and I will ask around for you. It is nice to know there is a kindred spirit on Numista.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble.  It's what you know for sure, that just ain't so.  Mark Twain
I do collect ALL types and varieties of the Canadian small cents and though it's not really my main focus I do keep my eye on it and already managed to put together some not-so-common variants and varieties. Having said that I must admit that I never heard that both 1983 near and far beads varieties exist in PL, SP and PF and that I was (probably mistakenly) under impression that those two variants exist only in business strike.
Have you ever seen them (or know someone who did) in both variants in PL, SP and PF?
There is a time for everything - Il y a un temps pour tout - Всему есть свое время - Для всього свій час, і година своя кожній справі під небом
No. I have not been able to find any photos anywhere on the Internet that would prove that both varieties of 1983 pennies exist in PL, SP, and PR. However, they are listed in the Charlton, but there are no photos to prove they exist in the book either. However, there is a price guide found online that list both Far and Near Beads in PL and SP, and gives prices for both varieties. The price guide does not list Proof pennies at all. Also, on another coin forum, a moderator bragged to me that he had both PL and SP. He said Far Beads does not exist in Proof, only Near Beads. He said that Far Beads in PL was 9:1000 sets and in SP was 7:1000 sets. All I have ever found is Near Beads in PL, SP, and Proof. The moderator said he would not post a photo because he thought I wanted it for a book. He also said he would not sell any of the extra pennies he owned because he was waiting for the price to go up since they are so uncommon. I am not sure if his word is believable or not. He is one of the moderators for the Canada Coin section, and he is considered one of the experts that people trust. What I find to be amazing is that he would have access to so many Mint Sets. Who buys 1000 sets? Even at $5 per set that is still $5,000 paid for something you could be stuck with for years. For me, I just need one penny for my collection. I have not been able to find a coin dealer that has 100's of sets let alone 1,000 to look through. None of the dealers has been able to send me both varieties. Two did send me coins, but the coins they sent me were all Near Beads in PL. They just marked them Far Beads on the flips. I do not know if they could not tell the difference between Far and Near Beads or if they were hoping I would not notice. I have both types in Business Strike Gem BU Red, so I can set those side by side with any 1983 penny and determine which variety it is without any problem. That is the best way to do it in my opinion.

So, NO! I have never seen Far Beads in Proof-Like, Specimen Strike, or Proof. I have only seen Far Beads in Business Strike BU/MS and circulated condition. But, I have only seen maybe 25 pennies in hand, and maybe 100 on eBay or on other online sites, so I do not know for sure rather both varieties exist in all four mint strike types or not.
OK, at least there is someone who claims to have them all. You see, I am trying to wrap my head around it and something looks rather improbable to me.
To start with - there must be 2 variants of the obverse dies and "Far Beads" is, probably, a deviation from the original design (since it's more rare than "Near Beads" and all pennies before and after 1983 are "Near Beads"). This deviation for sure existed in business strike dies and you can relatively easily find both variants in regular circulated or uncirculated pennies. PL (according to the regular practice of RCM) are the coins taken out of business production (made with brand new dies and with no "bin storage") and therefore - in my opinion - both variants should exist in PL, as long as by "PL" we mean the coins from the mint sets sealed in cellophane (actually, plyofilm) and sold in paper envelopes.
As for "speciment" (in 1983 it was a double strike using the high polish dies) and "proof" (frosted image on the mirror background) varieties, the dies for both of them have been made separately from business production dies and with some additional steps (and probably higher precision of the device). It is rather difficult to assume that the same "Far Beads" deviation would occur in SP and PF dies which are supposed to be made with a much higher level of quality control than regular dies.
Take my explanations and assumption with a pinch of salt though - I am not an expert in dies manufacturing...
There is a time for everything - Il y a un temps pour tout - Всему есть свое время - Для всього свій час, і година своя кожній справі під небом
Here is some pictures of my proof coin. Still in the case so not real clear. Which version does it look like to you?



Colonial Acres has some proof pennies in stock; http://www.colonialacres.com/1-cent-1980-1989-s/364.htm

At the bottom of the page they also say that they exist in all mint varieties. Might be worth contacting them if you haven't already. Hope this helps.
Quote: "Beekeeper"​Here is some pictures of my proof coin. Still in the case so not real clear. Which version does it look like to you?





​I would say this is Near Beads.
Quote: "Beekeeper"​Colonial Acres has some proof pennies in stock; http://www.colonialacres.com/1-cent-1980-1989-s/364.htm

​At the bottom of the page they also say that they exist in all mint varieties. Might be worth contacting them if you haven't already. Hope this helps.
​"1983 CENT
The one cent coin minted in 1983 came in two varieties. One would feature obverse beads going around the Queen’s head near the rim while the other would have the beads farther from the rim. The faraway beads would be a bit smaller and only ½ way from the rim and the Queen’s bust. The closer beads would be closest to the rim and would be about 1/3 from the rim and Queen’s bust. These types exist in MS, Specimen, Proof and Proof-like versions of the coin."

Adding this from that link you gave us. I have asked this dealer, but they did not have both types in stock in PL, SP, and PR, when I asked. Maybe they do now. I will try again.
Quote: "glykan"​OK, at least there is someone who claims to have them all. You see, I am trying to wrap my head around it and something looks rather improbable to me.
​To start with - there must be 2 variants of the obverse dies and "Far Beads" is, probably, a deviation from the original design (since it's more rare than "Near Beads" and all pennies before and after 1983 are "Near Beads"). This deviation for sure existed in business strike dies and you can relatively easily find both variants in regular circulated or uncirculated pennies. PL (according to the regular practice of RCM) are the coins taken out of business production (made with brand new dies and with no "bin storage") and therefore - in my opinion - both variants should exist in PL, as long as by "PL" we mean the coins from the mint sets sealed in cellophane (actually, plyofilm) and sold in paper envelopes.
​As for "speciment" (in 1983 it was a double strike using the high polish dies) and "proof" (frosted image on the mirror background) varieties, the dies for both of them have been made separately from business production dies and with some additional steps (and probably higher precision of the device). It is rather difficult to assume that the same "Far Beads" deviation would occur in SP and PF dies which are supposed to be made with a much higher level of quality control than regular dies.
​Take my explanations and assumption with a pinch of salt though - I am not an expert in dies manufacturing...
​Yes, for PL, I mean those coming from the sets where they are sealed in soft plastic and placed in an envelope. For Specimen, I mean those that come from the Hard Plastic Specimen Sets, not Proof sets. For Proof, I mean just that from Proof sets. For Business Strike, I mean those coming from bank rolls or mint bags.

Far and Near Beads are sold in pairs on eBay in business strike BU/MS. That is how I got mine. However, they are not sold that way in PL, SP, or PR. Also, no Far Beads version has been identified in slab holders for any of the coins being sold on eBay other than in MS grades. There are no PL, SP, or PR graded Far Beads listed.

I live in the USA, where it is difficult to get Canada pennies. Most of my purchases have come from eBay or online dealers. I have asked dealers for both varieties in PL, SP, or PR, but none of them have been able to help. The excuse it either they only have one type and they do not know which one they have or they cannot tell the difference. A couple of dealers sent me PL sets, but both coins turned out to be Near Beads. I have both varieties in Gem BU Red, so it is easy to tell what they send me because I just have to put them between those two pennies to see the difference.

However, as you can see from other postings that even dealers say both varieties exist in MS, PL, SP, and PR. But, why do they not sell them that way? One reason could be the price. Far Beads is listed for $1 in PL-64 and Near Beads is listed for $2. I guess it is not worth the time it takes to identify them if they have no difference in value. In MS-64 they are listed for $1 in Far Beads and $24 in Near Beads. In SP-66 they are listed for $5 in Far Beads and $10 in Near Beads. I purchased a huge lot of Specimen strikes to get mine for less than $1 each. The lot contained every year from 1973 to 2011, plus double of some years. For 1983, I got five coins, and all five where Near Beads.

Since PL coins are made from the same dies as business strike coins, then it stands to reason that Far Beads and Near Beads must exist in PL. I agree with you. Since they are listed in the price guide, it stands to reason they must also exist in SP, but maybe they look slightly different or are not as noticeable. Without photos of both varieties in MS, PL, SP, and PR, there is not way to know if they exist or not or to know how to tell them apart. If someone has photos they can post with each variety side by side in PL, SP, and/or PR, then that would help. It would help us identify them correctly, and prove they exist.

If I am able to buy these, I will let everyone know where I got them.
Quote: "Beekeeper"​Colonial Acres has some proof pennies in stock; http://www.colonialacres.com/1-cent-1980-1989-s/364.htm

​At the bottom of the page they also say that they exist in all mint varieties. Might be worth contacting them if you haven't already. Hope this helps.
​Thank you, but this was a dead end. I contacted them, and they made the statement that both Far and Near Beads varieties do exist in MS, PL, SP, and PR, but they do not sell them that way. They separate all their MS (Business Strike BU) 1983 pennies as either being Far or Near Beads, but they do not do that for PL, SP, or PR. Even their slabbed graded coins are labelled the same way. There MS-65 Red Slabbed 1983 pennies are identified as either being Far or Near Beads right on the label, but their PL, SP, and PR, 1983 pennies are not identified by variety. I pointed out to them that the PL, SP, and PR, were not identified in the listings, and I asked them to search through their stocks and send me one of each variety in PL, SP, and or PR, depending on what they had in stock. They refuse to search their supply or sell me those pennies by variety. Either they cannot identify which variety is which or they refuse to sell them to me that way for unknown reasons. For me it is logical that if Far and Near Beads exist in MS, PL, SP, and PR, then I need all eight different pennies in my set for it to be complete. I cannot say that I am surprised, but I am disappointed this was a dead end.

What I need is a link to a Canada Coin Dealer that specializes in Canada Small Cents, and has all the major varieties in all mint strike finish variations available for sale. I have searched the Internet, and have yet to find such a dealer. Do you guys know of any coin dealers that specialize in selling Canada Small Cents? Thanks.
Hi,



That's the documentation.

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Thank you for showing us the exact difference. I see from the photo that both coins being used for the measurements are both circulated issues, does anyone have any photos of both types in any other mint strike type such as PL, SP, or Proof? Thanks.
Topic locked (Numista Robot, 24-Jan-2019, 00:20)

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