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Circulating Commemorative coins

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MrWMD
Joined: 9-Mar-2016
Posts: 2
I only collect circulating coins. Unfortunately I have difficulty ​in knowing if a coin was circulating Commemorative or non circulating commemirative.
For example some coins I saw last month that were labelled as non circulating Commemorative are now circulating.
I sometimes have a hard time trusting the site although I use it regularly. The question is, how do I really know? Are there official catalogues?
VieillePile Numista team, Moderator
Joined: 5-Mar-2016
Posts: 592
Hi Mister,

I guess you should have posted in the english section rather than in the french one ;-)

Nevertheless , as far as french coins are concerned, you know what they are from the legal decisions ( link below). The Numista catalogue may also precise it, as well as other catalogues, as Le Franc or the Gadoury.

Roughly, when, for France, when the mintage is over 1 million, you may consider this is a circulating coin.




https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichSarde.do?reprise=true&page=1&idSarde=SARDOBJT000007104852&ordre=null&nature=null&g=ls
Vieille Pile
MrWMD
Joined: 9-Mar-2016
Posts: 2
Oh god... I didn't mean to post in the French section...
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 2005
Canada is becoming a real nightmare with regard to circulating vs. non-circulating commems. I don't know exactly which of the 25¢, 1$ and 2$ coins circulate, and I have to go to the Charlton catalogue to make sure. The distinction is not clear either in the Numista catalogue, possibly because it sticks too closely to how things are done in the Krause catalogue.
tony.c
Joined: 27-Feb-2010
Posts: 702
I think there is an overload on commemorative circulating coins : see 2€ coins, US quarters, ... It's the main reason I stopped collecting eurocoins, only the coins I can find in circulation or via swaps end up inmy collection. Otherwise it's just too expensive to keep the collection complete !
Also french 5 and 10 euro coins, and then the special denominations in some other countries... It's just a money making machine for the governments !!

Kind regards,
Tony
glykan
Joined: 11-Sep-2013
Posts: 493
Quote: "Camerinvs"​Canada is becoming a real nightmare with regard to circulating vs. non-circulating commems. I don't know exactly which of the 25¢, 1$ and 2$ coins circulate, and I have to go to the Charlton catalogue to make sure. The distinction is not clear either in the Numista catalogue, possibly because it sticks too closely to how things are done in the Krause catalogue.
​For Canada, I find it rather easy. Let's say quarters:
- there was no non-circulating commemos before 1992
- and anything silver (after 1968), gold, large size or with a mintage below 200,000 is non-circulating. Circulating colorized quarters are few and apart and are well known (I bet you had them in your pocket change), everything else colored is non-circulating.
More or less the same goes for $1 and $2 coins.
MonaSeaclaid
Joined: 21-Jan-2016
Posts: 962
But I think, to Camerinvs' point, after 1992 it becomes a major undertaking to pick out what's what.

In 25 cent pieces alone in 1992 there are 17 coins. And to be honest that's one of the less confusing years to deal with since that time.
glykan
Joined: 11-Sep-2013
Posts: 493
I am not arguing that it isn't messy - it is. Some time ago I put together a list of circulating Canadian quarters and here is up to date version of it, hope it might be useful for those interested:

Canadian 25c issued for circulation:
- everything issued before 1992 (including silver 1968 issue)
- nickel alloy versions of the following series: 1992 (Canadian provinces), 1999 (Months of the year) and 2000 (Millennium). Silver versions of these series as well as nickel colored versions KM#383a and KM#384.1 are NOT circulating issues
- all nickel versions of regular caribou design from 1968 to 2016 (nickel version of 2017 regular design is NOT circulating)
-from 2002 to 2017 circulating issues are (by KM#): 448, 451,493, 510 (first colored circulation issue in the world), 628, 699, 530, 532, 535, 629, 635, 682-686, 765, 766, 768 (colored versions of 684 and 675 are NOT circulating issues), 775, 841, 840, 842, 952, 1063, 1063a, 1064, 1064a, 1065, 1065a, 1028, 1168, 1169, 1170, plated steel versions of 1168a, 1169a and 1170a (silver versions are NOT circulating), 1322, 1322a, 1324, 1324a, 1547, 1852.1, 1852.2, and several recent coins that don't have KM numbers in the Numista catalog yet:
http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces52214.html
http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces43577.html
http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces43576.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces73630.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces73632.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces107157.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces107158.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces108087.html
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 2005
Note: I was writing this as glykan repled to Mona.
Quote: "glykan"
Quote: "Camerinvs"​Canada is becoming a real nightmare with regard to circulating vs. non-circulating commems. I don't know exactly which of the 25¢, 1$ and 2$ coins circulate, and I have to go to the Charlton catalogue to make sure. The distinction is not clear either in the Numista catalogue, possibly because it sticks too closely to how things are done in the Krause catalogue.
​​For Canada, I find it rather easy. Let's say quarters:
​ - there was no non-circulating commemos before 1992
​ - and anything silver (after 1968), gold, large size or with a mintage below 200,000 is non-circulating. Circulating colorized quarters are few and apart and are well known [?] (I bet you had them in your pocket change), everything else colored is non-circulating.
More or less the same goes for $1 and $2 coins.
​Hi glykan,

You're actually proving my point. Pre-1992 is of course not a problem. The 1992 and 1999-2000 circulating commems are of course easy as well. It's from about 1997 that things get ugly, and it gets much worse from about 2004.

There are actually quite a few of the circulating colourized and other commemorative quarters that I have never seen in my change, which doesn't mean they are non-circulating.

And then, all the W mintmarks are non-circulating, but they can have a circulating finish, so you have to learn that they are non-circulating, and that doesn't mean that all the P and logo issues are circulating. Even the Charlton catalogue has a hard time to organize all the material in a logical manner, especially from 2006. So much so that I have created my own Excel list.
glykan
Joined: 11-Sep-2013
Posts: 493
I agree, RCM has made a big mess out of last 15 years and they don't seem to stop or fix it for the future issues - just look what they did with 2017 issues. I understand people who simply give up and start collecting something else just to avoid that kind of a headache...
MonaSeaclaid
Joined: 21-Jan-2016
Posts: 962
I didn't even see one of each circulating Canada 150 coin. They purposefully under-produced a few of the designs to sell the sets, which I actually needed a spreadsheet to understand.

They're so focused on making sales and coming out with absurd new coins they've really over-saturated their market with product. At some point the bubble has to burst.
glykan
Joined: 11-Sep-2013
Posts: 493
Quote: "MonaSeaclaid"​I didn't even see one of each circulating Canada 150 coin.

​I believe that it strongly depends on where you live and where you shop - many cashiers/cash managers pick them up before they get into cashiers' bin. Despite of it "150s" pop up here and there and I've got them all from the change (including one colored $2 coin) but even the employees at my local bank branch admit that they don't see too many of them.
Peter M. Graham
Joined: 1-Jul-2015
Posts: 886
Back in May 2016, I had my collection packed away for a few months in anticipation of moving. To keep my "collecting bug" happy, I started a non-silver circulating Canadian quarter collection. 1968 through the mid 1980's was covered by an old hand-me-down collection. The rest were filled out at flea markets, coin shows, pocket change, and a few eBay auctions. Just a few Caribou's from the 1990's to go.

This was and is a fun, little, inexpensive project. I believe this would be an excellent collection goal for any new, younger numismatist in Canada.
We were so busy deciding whether we could, we never asked ourselves whether we should!
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 2005
The key date among the nickel caribou 25¢ is of course 1991. I found only two of them in my change. Coin roll hunters should keep their eyes open for 1997 and 1998 which were not issued for circulation, but may have slipped into someone's pocket change for whatever reason.

Among the commems, I don't know whether any of the 1999/2000 mule 25¢ went into circulation or are found only in Mint sets.

What Mona says about under-production of certain denominations I didn't know, but it doesn't surprise me. Well, in some way, it does, since you need to strike enough of each denomination to "feed" the economy. Does the Mint have rolls of 2016 10¢ if they under-produced them in 2017? (I take the example of the 10¢ because I have not seen any 2017 ones, nor any 2017 $2.)

I got my first 2017 coin, a 5¢, in May, in Marystown on the Burin Peninsula, Newfoundland.
MonaSeaclaid
Joined: 21-Jan-2016
Posts: 962
They advertised this year that some of the coins would have a smaller mintage than others. I'm pretty sure they meant the coloured ones but they never actually came out and said that I saw.

These are the mintages:

5-cent: 20 million
10-cent: 20 million
25-cent: 20 million
One-dollar: 10 million
Two-dollar: 10 million (4 million coloured)

I don't know for sure but I believe the coloured 25 cent and 2 dollar coins are included in these numbers, that's how they've done it in the past.
I had to dig to get this, and they really pressed to people that some coins (without being specific) would have low mintages and would therefore be scarce. That's all you need to do to get people to horde them. You create scarcity just by saying the word.

These numbers do not include the coins minted for sets that were sold. Those numbers are released later this year, and I'd be very interested to see those figures.

To answer the original question, MrWMD, it's obviously complicated and it'll vary from country to country. As for Canada, I do find Numista to be pretty accurate. I also find http://www.coinsandcanada.com to be very good.
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 2005
Quote: "MonaSeaclaid"​They advertised this year that some of the coins would have a smaller mintage than others. I'm pretty sure they meant the coloured ones but they never actually came out and said that I saw.

​These are the mintages:

​5-cent: 20 million
​10-cent: 20 million
​25-cent: 20 million
​One-dollar: 10 million
​Two-dollar: 10 million (4 million coloured)

​I don't know for sure but I believe the coloured 25 cent and 2 dollar coins are included in these numbers, that's how they've done it in the past.

If accurate these figures are extremely low. To give only one example in way of comparison, the mintage of each of the 2007 25¢ Vancouver Olympics was 22,000,000 ─ a total of 110,000,000 since there were five varieties that year. And then ... AND THEN ... holy shite ... there were also 274,763,000 regular caribou 25¢ struck that same year.

Going back 50 years, the mintage for the 1967 quarter was 48,855,500 ─ more than twice the 2017 mintage.
MonaSeaclaid
Joined: 21-Jan-2016
Posts: 962
These figures actually came from a Mint representative on mint.ca in the question section for one of the Canada 150 sets. I haven't seen it anywhere else. It's not forthcoming in any official press or a Google search.

I'm a dummy and didn't save the link, but I'm sure I can find it again. I'll have to look tomorrow and get back to you.

Edit: Never mind! I have it here: http://www.mint.ca/store/coins/2017-canada-150-circulation-12-coin-collection-prod2900029?o_action=crossSell#.WlwQrqinFPY

You have to scroll down to the questions section and look at the answers for questions 4, 7, and 8.

These numbers are very low, and I'm very convinced that it's to encourage sales. I did make a spreadsheet last year to track the number of commemorative sets and I'm convinced that those were arranged for more sales as well. If I remember right every single set for sale is either missing a coin or has an exclusive coin, or both.

I'm starting to feel very much like I've hijacked this thread though, I'm not sure how things work but if anything needs to be edited or moved feel free, or message me and I'll do it. Sorry about that!
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 2005
I see that the mintages exclude the mint sets, which will probably be rather big numbers for mint sets if people like me get tired of looking for those coins in circulation. But I got mine not from the Mint but an eBay dealer, 77joel, who buys rolls every year and makes sets out of them.

On the French side, to one similar question, the reply was that mintages are not divulged until the annual report is published the next year (so, later this year for the 2017 coinages). So, we're lucky that you found those numbers. By the way, after providing the mintages Erica (Product Team) writes: "The only coins dated 2017 being circulated this year are the My Canada, My Inspiration designs". This answer is of course inaccurate since there are other circulating commems for 2017: Vimy, Stanley Cup, Maple Leafs.


MonaSeaclaid
Joined: 21-Jan-2016
Posts: 962
Yeah those figures don't include coins minted for sets, and those numbers will only be tallied up when they're preparing the annual report. As I said above I'd be very interested to see those figures, given my theory on it all.

That was in October that Erica stated that there wouldn't be anything circulated beyond the "My Canada, My Inspiration" designs. So either she thought the others were irrelevant, the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing, or she wants to keep the buzz going.
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 2005
I just bought a copy of the latest Canadian Coin News. They report that the last coin of the Canada 150 program was released on December 5th. I mention this because I suspect (8~) it's a non-circulating commem ─ a $2500 gold coin weighing exactly 1 kg. You should rush to get one before they sell out: mintage is only 20 (yes, twenty) pieces.
MonaSeaclaid
Joined: 21-Jan-2016
Posts: 962
Yeah when they announced they were doing 150 coins for the 150th anniversary I figured there'd be at least a few like that. There's another one that's $7000.00, with a diamond in the middle of it. Mintage: 250.

No joke, one of the reviews is from someone who calls themselves a budget shopper, but calls this coin a little pricey. Ideal as a gift for a child.

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