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Values and new collection management

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Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Hello!

We just introduced two new features:

Coin values
As initially proposed by imreh, Numista is now able to display values of the coins. Values are computed by coin date and grade, based on evaluations of Numista users.
The values are adjusted with the prices of sales realized on the Internet. Only few such prices are computed this way yet; more sources are planned to be implemented.

Collection management
In order to support the above feature for values, the way you can enter your collection in Numista has changed. Not only you can now enter the price at which you bought a coin (the price will participate to the computation of the value), but you may also add more details about the coin in your collection. This includes a differentiation between public comments visible from your swap partners and private comments, the possibility to add different comments for several coins of the same date, and the possibility to set the grade of a coin for swap.


I'm answering here a few questions you may have. I will update it with answers to your further questions.

Why I can't see any values?
Values are mainly based on the collections of Numista users. No price is computed for a given coin, date and grade until at least 4 users enter a price for that date and grade in their collection.
Until there are enough data, and in order to avoid too biased values, no value are displayed yet, replaced by a dash.

How are the values computed?
The value of a coin for a given date and grade are computed as the median value of the prices entered in Numista user collection. Not that a user cannot contribute more than once to the computation of the median: if a user enters several coins with several prices, only the median value of the prices he/she entered is taken into account to compute the value.

How was my collection affected?
Collections have been migrated to a new, more detailed model. Here is an example of the transformation that has been done:
  • Original

  • New

You may now add more details using the edit button next to each line to add more details about each coin in your collection.

Will there be further updates of Numista around values?
Currently you may see the buying prices you entered in your collection when looking at your collection or exporting to a spreadsheet. Some evolutions are considered, including:
- Display of the values or buying price on your dashboard
- More values coming from sales realized on Internet
- Adjustment of prices based on the inflation
- Better calculation of values for modern bullion coins (bullion price + markup)
ZacUK Numista team, Moderator
Joined: 3-Jan-2011
Posts: 5329
Great - thanks! I have started with my recent eBay purchase history, and going down their page then putting those prices on the Numista pages. :)
My collections >
http://mycoinssite.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=13560800
also 13750057 also 15924495 also 15995337
http://mycoinssite.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=16060326
Oklahoman
Joined: 20-Dec-2015
Posts: 1442
Pssst. I heard a rumor that Imreh wants banknotes on Numista... just kidding. I am intrigued by the new format. As to the pricing... I may be wrong but it just seems to me that in addition to a "Numista rarity" we now have "Numista prices and values" ? Will the updates be automatic and real world? Or are these just an average of what a collector enters? I do love that there is a place for me to enter my purchase price. But I have a very rare coin that has only 3 known. I paid a ridiculously low price but know it is valued in the thousands of pounds. I have a concern as well about ethics: what's to keep a collector from inflating values of a coin they want to sell or trade, will refs be empowered to manipulate the pricing if a member gets crazy? How would a ref even know? Just concerns. I like how Numista is progressing. I hope we continue to enhance cataloging of numismatics and be careful with pricing that it really is world based and not Numista based.
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Quote: "ZacUK"​ Great - thanks! I have started with recent eBay history, and going down their page then putting prices on the Numista pages. :)
​The purpose is rather that you can enter the prices at which you bought (or currently evaluate) the coins in your collection.
There is a separate way to enter prices of sold items from eBay or other platforms. There is currently no page to enter them, as the goal is to automatize as much as possible.
If you want to participate in manually entering prices, you can send me an Excel file with the following columns:
- Coin ID (from the coin page URL)
- Coin date/variant ID (visible only to admins)
- Grade
- URL of the eBay (or others) sale
- Price
- Currency
ZacUK Numista team, Moderator
Joined: 3-Jan-2011
Posts: 5329
Quote: "ZacUK"​ Great - thanks! I have started with my recent eBay purchase history, and going down their page then putting those prices on the Numista pages. :)
​ Yes; earlier I already changed my original message, and meant my own purchase prices!
My collections >
http://mycoinssite.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=13560800
also 13750057 also 15924495 also 15995337
http://mycoinssite.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=16060326
Numismatist uk
Joined: 2-Jan-2018
Posts: 541
Every time you click the enter or edit button it jumps to the top and does nothing,
what should I do?
Coin collector and Silver stacker
'We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.'
Sir Winston Churchill
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Quote: "Oklahoman"​Pssst. I heard a rumor that Imreh wants banknotes on Numista... just kidding. I am intrigued by the new format. As to the pricing... I may be wrong but it just seems to me that in addition to a "Numista rarity" we now have "Numista prices and values" ? Will the updates be automatic and real world? Or are these just an average of what a collector enters? I do love that there is a place for me to enter my purchase price. But I have a very rare coin that has only 3 known. I paid a ridiculously low price but know it is valued in the thousands of pounds. I have a concern as well about ethics: what's to keep a collector from inflating values of a coin they want to sell or trade, will refs be empowered to manipulate the pricing if a member gets crazy? How would a ref even know? Just concerns. I like how Numista is progressing. I hope we continue to enhance cataloging of numismatics and be careful with pricing that it really is world based and not Numista based.
Let me give you my feedback
  • ​The update of values is automatic, as soon as at least 4 users enter a price.
  • Valuations of rare coins is very difficult and volatile, as it really depends on who is willing to buy and sell at a given time.
  • I guess it could make sense you enter a reasonable estimate, if the purchase price is clearly under-estimated.
  • A single user can't inflate the price. Only the median value is taken into account, not the average. It means the top and bottom value don't count at all. For instance, if some users already entered prices 10, 12, 13, 13 and 19, the computed value is 13. Even if a user enters a purchase price of 50, the median value stays 13.
  • Referees have no specific rights for values
  • The current computation is pretty simple for the moment. Let's wait and see if the values look reasonable. If we see strange values, we can still analyse and adapt if needed.
ReneNP
Joined: 17-Feb-2017
Posts: 6
I like these new features. In particulary the values and the new private note.

I just have a couple of quick questions though:

1. Is it possible to quickly add a lot of different years of a coin, like before, or do I have to click the add button and enter the information for each year of that coin manually?
Let's say I have a large collection of Swiss 10 Rappen and want to enter them all into my Numista catalogue, what would be the fastest way to do this?

2. On the page for a specific swap, the public note of a coin seems to have vanished with the new update. I am still able to see my own public notes if I click on the "Edit my collection" link but not the public notes of the coins I have added from my swap partners collection.
Would this feature come back or is it gone for good?
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Quote: "Numismatist uk"​Every time you click the enter or edit button it jumps to the top and does nothing,
​what should I do?
Sorry for that.
​Are you using a desktop or mobile? Would you be able to indicate which OS, which browser and which version?
If you open the developer tools (usually press F12), do you see anything in the console when you click?
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Quote: "ReneNP"​I like these new features. In particulary the values and the new private note.

​I just have a couple of quick questions though:

​1. Is it possible to quickly add a lot of different years of a coin, like before, or do I have to click the add button and enter the information for each year of that coin manually?
​Let's say I have a large collection of Swiss 10 Rappen and want to enter them all into my Numista catalogue, what would be the fastest way to do this?

​2. On the page for a specific swap, the public note of a coin seems to have vanished with the new update. I am still able to see my own public notes if I click on the "Edit my collection" link but not the public notes of the coins I have added from my swap partners collection.
​Would this feature come back or is it gone for good?
​1. I plan to add another button next to "Save in my collection" to save and add again. It should also be possible to choose another date in the coin list.
Currently you should click for each coin you want to enter, and you may group coins of the same dates and grade (or with no grade if you don't care).

2. Comments of past swaps have vanished, but they will be displayed for coins added to a swap after the change.
ReneNP
Joined: 17-Feb-2017
Posts: 6
Quote: "Xavier"
Quote: "Numismatist uk"​Every time you click the enter or edit button it jumps to the top and does nothing,
​​what should I do?
​Sorry for that.
​​Are you using a desktop or mobile? Would you be able to indicate which OS, which browser and which version?
​If you open the developer tools (usually press F12), do you see anything in the console when you click?
​I am able to reproduce this error in Microsoft Edge on Windows 10 (a click on the add button reloads the page).

And in Internet Explorer 11 on Windows 10 a click on the add button sends me to https://en.numista.com/catalogue/
Michaelw90
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 220
Great new function! Really happy with it.

I did found a bug, I guess?

The order of years is not correct.

If I need to adress this thing somewere else I will do that.

Gr. michael
Special interest in Coins from the Low countries (Feudal-present). Numista referee for Low Countries Feudal, Burgundian Netherlands, Spanish Netherlands, Dutch Republic, Netherlands and Netherlands East Indies.
Numismatist uk
Joined: 2-Jan-2018
Posts: 541
Quote: "ReneNP"​​​I am able to reproduce this error in Microsoft Edge on Windows 10 (a click on the add button reloads the page).

​And in Internet Explorer 11 on Windows 10 a click on the add button sends me to https://en.numista.com/catalogue/
I'm using Microsoft edge with 2010 currently​
Coin collector and Silver stacker
'We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.'
Sir Winston Churchill
Oklahoman
Joined: 20-Dec-2015
Posts: 1442
Thanks for the feedback.
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Quote: "ReneNP"​​​I am able to reproduce this error in Microsoft Edge on Windows 10 (a click on the add button reloads the page).

​And in Internet Explorer 11 on Windows 10 a click on the add button sends me to https://en.numista.com/catalogue/
​I just fixed it. Could you please refresh and try again?
Numismatist uk
Joined: 2-Jan-2018
Posts: 541
Thanks it works now.
Coin collector and Silver stacker
'We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.'
Sir Winston Churchill
numinis
Joined: 19-Aug-2015
Posts: 147
Thank you very much for implementing this. It will be very useful.
The only problem I see so far is that the coins that I have for swap are described as part of my collection now. For example, I have 1 coin in the collection and 33 to exchange, but it says "In my collection: 34".
Numismatist uk
Joined: 2-Jan-2018
Posts: 541
Quote: "numinis"​Thank you very much for implementing this. It will be very useful.
​The only problem I see so far is that the coins that I have for swap are described as part of my collection now. For example, I have 1 coin in the collection and 33 to exchange, but it says "In my collection: 34".
I suppose it adds the swaps until you swap them as you still have them​
Coin collector and Silver stacker
'We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.'
Sir Winston Churchill
ReneNP
Joined: 17-Feb-2017
Posts: 6
Quote: "Xavier"
Quote: "ReneNP"​​​I am able to reproduce this error in Microsoft Edge on Windows 10 (a click on the add button reloads the page).
​​
​​And in Internet Explorer 11 on Windows 10 a click on the add button sends me to https://en.numista.com/catalogue/
​​I just fixed it. Could you please refresh and try again?
​Microsoft Edge works fine now.

Internet Explorer 11 still has the issue of sending me to the catalogue page.
Personally it is not an issue for me as I don't use IE11...
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Quote: "Michaelw90"​Great new function! Really happy with it.

​I did found a bug, I guess?

​The order of years is not correct.

​If I need to adress this thing somewere else I will do that.

​Gr. michael
Thanks for reporting. Fixed :)
Michaelw90
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 220
Thanks Xavier. Next issue is Internet Explorer 11. I have the same problem as you fixed with 10. Automatic redirection to My collection when trying to edit a coin.
Special interest in Coins from the Low countries (Feudal-present). Numista referee for Low Countries Feudal, Burgundian Netherlands, Spanish Netherlands, Dutch Republic, Netherlands and Netherlands East Indies.
Cyrillius Numista team
Joined: 5-Jun-2013
Posts: 1094
We all waited for these functions for several years. Great, that's excellent, thank you very much. But Numista - it was always a very simple and intuitive management. Sorry, the new design is driving me crazy. I do not understand how I can just add one coin for myself and one coin for exchange. Can I add a coin and to myself and to exchange?
masterguru
Joined: 1-Nov-2011
Posts: 21
Quote: "Michaelw90"​Thanks Xavier. Next issue is Internet Explorer 11. I have the same problem as you fixed with 10. Automatic redirection to My collection when trying to edit a coin.
​Hello Xavier,

I have a similar problem.
I am using IE 11 on windows 10.
Any time I want to add a coin to my collection or edit a coin in my collection, it jumps to the page "Search for a coin " when I hit the Enter button.

Thanks a lot for this revision.
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Quote: "Michaelw90"​Thanks Xavier. Next issue is Internet Explorer 11. I have the same problem as you fixed with 10. Automatic redirection to My collection when trying to edit a coin.
​Fixed :)
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Quote: "Cyrillius"​We all waited for these functions for several years. Great, that's excellent, thank you very much. But Numista - it was always a very simple and intuitive management. Sorry, the new design is driving me crazy. I do not understand how I can just add one coin for myself and one coin for exchange. Can I add a coin and to myself and to exchange?

​You would need to add twice: first add the coin not for swap (with optionally the grade, the purchase price and the comments), then add the coin for swap (with again optional data).
masterguru
Joined: 1-Nov-2011
Posts: 21
Quote: "masterguru"
Quote: "Michaelw90"​Thanks Xavier. Next issue is Internet Explorer 11. I have the same problem as you fixed with 10. Automatic redirection to My collection when trying to edit a coin.
​​Hello Xavier,

​I have a similar problem.
​I am using IE 11 on windows 10.
​Any time I want to add a coin to my collection or edit a coin in my collection, it jumps to the page "Search for a coin " when I hit the Enter button.

​Thanks a lot for this revision.
​OK it works now.
Great.
Kettti110
Joined: 5-Apr-2015
Posts: 23
I don't like it. If you want to add prices use a spreadsheet. Furthermore it makes adding coins in bulk a pain in the ass. For Example if I want to add 50 1/2 Mark from German Empire I now have to add each date in every condition on their own without simply using the TAB button. And this just looks horrible imho
Zaytsev Ilya
Joined: 13-Nov-2015
Posts: 4
I don't like this changes. Numista was very simple to add coins to collection and to swap-list. Now it takes more times to edit my collection. Can I use old version of this site?
Cyrillius Numista team
Joined: 5-Jun-2013
Posts: 1094
Quote: "Kettti110"​I don't like it. If you want to add prices use a spreadsheet. Furthermore it makes adding coins in bulk a pain in the ass. For Example if I want to add 50 1/2 Mark from German Empire I now have to add each date in every condition on their own without simply using the TAB button. And this just looks horrible imho
​I was too shy to say this word. Sorry, but it's true.
Cyrillius Numista team
Joined: 5-Jun-2013
Posts: 1094
what do you think of the new version? https://en.numista.com/forum/topic67357.html
In this thread there are also words about pain.``-
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 1807
HI,

I just wonder how many years I would need to enter the prices from my collection (> 38.000 different coins) or is there a plan to automatize such a thing.

In my collection spread sheet (excel) I also have the diameters, weights, thickness's of around 70% of my coins, which also might help to update the numista file?

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/
mitino
Joined: 13-Jan-2014
Posts: 23
I am forced to recognize that the former design was simple and very convenient.
It isn't sure that he will be pleasant to those who conduct a collection by years.
For an example it is enough to open the page with cents of the USA.
Well, it is necessary to get used to new design.
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 1807
Quote: "mitino"​I am forced to recognize that the former design was simple and very convenient.
​It isn't sure that he will be pleasant to those who conduct a collection by years.
​For an example it is enough to open the page with cents of the USA.
​Well, it is necessary to get used to new design.
​That will probably raise the amount of errors when entering coins..... It'll certainly take a LOT of time to get used to that, if ever!

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/
rysiek
Joined: 18-Apr-2012
Posts: 102
I suggest introducing a choice: an old or new version.
Is this solution possible? Just as it works the swap monitor.
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 1807
Quote: "rysiek"​I suggest introducing a choice: an old or new version.
​Is this solution possible? Just as it works the swap monitor.
​A very good suggestion, I support it 100%.

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 1807
Hi again,

it's the lay-out which is horrible. Wouldn't it be possible to add the new options behind the former main lay-out to get back to ONE line per year?

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Quote: "rysiek"​I suggest introducing a choice: an old or new version.
​Is this solution possible? Just as it works the swap monitor.
I understand the new collection management is less convenient if you don't intend to use the new functionalities. I will work on bringing the old version back as a choice.
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4372
I guess it is all about a question of simlicity versus new funcionalities. Old version by choice could work this out.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Bohemia,Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Quote: "Sjoelund"​Hi again,

​it's the lay-out which is horrible. Wouldn't it be possible to add the new options behind the former main lay-out to get back to ONE line per year?

​Ole
​The issue is to be able to display different values and comments for each grade, and possibly even for different coins of the same grade, all on a single line.
Anyway, as just mentioned, I will bring the one-line display (without comments per coin and values) as a choice for user who prefer it.
Zaytsev Ilya
Joined: 13-Nov-2015
Posts: 4
Quote: "Xavier"
Quote: "rysiek"​I suggest introducing a choice: an old or new version.
​​Is this solution possible? Just as it works the swap monitor.
​I understand the new collection management is less convenient if you don't intend to use the new functionalities. I will work on bringing the old version back as a choice.
​Please, do it! I will wait for this choice!
mitino
Joined: 13-Jan-2014
Posts: 23
Quote: "Xavier"
Quote: "rysiek"​I suggest introducing a choice: an old or new version.
​​Is this solution possible? Just as it works the swap monitor.
​I understand the new collection management is less convenient if you don't intend to use the new functionalities. I will work on bringing the old version back as a choice.
​Really it is possible?
I will be very glad. Thanks!
mitino
Joined: 13-Jan-2014
Posts: 23
Quote: "Xavier"
Quote: "Sjoelund"​Hi again,
​​
​​it's the lay-out which is horrible. Wouldn't it be possible to add the new options behind the former main lay-out to get back to ONE line per year?
​​
​​Ole
​​The issue is to be able to display different values and comments for each grade, and possibly even for different coins of the same grade, all on a single line.
​Anyway, as just mentioned, I will bring the one-line display (without comments per coin and values) as a choice for user who prefer it.
​No, option no comments too it is bad.
Return an old line with the comment, general for a year.
Michaelw90
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 220
I do like the new functions. Finally I can keep track of my values and I don't mind the new overview. I am wondering though if it would be possible to see a overview on my coins with only the buying values I entered.
Special interest in Coins from the Low countries (Feudal-present). Numista referee for Low Countries Feudal, Burgundian Netherlands, Spanish Netherlands, Dutch Republic, Netherlands and Netherlands East Indies.
andrewdotcoza
Joined: 29-Sep-2013
Posts: 109
Someone needs to be honest here, and not tiptoe around with a long opening paragraph about how grateful we are for everyone's work. Of course we are grateful, and that goes without saying, but we should be able to deliver honest feedback without pitchforks and burning torches coming out like they usually do.

I feel that this change is horrible, and my initial reaction is that it makes Numista unusable for my purposes. Consider these two screenshots:



From a software design perspective, it is impossible to consider the second one an improvement on the first one. In terms of both readability and editability, it is a large step backwards. Here is why:
  1. It is much more difficult to see, at a glance, what grade of coin you have for a particular year because you actually have to read the grade text rather than just being able to see what you have from the grid display of input boxes on the original version.
  2. You have to click on a cryptic icon in order to make any changes, whereas before you could make changes directly in the listing.
  3. The "edit" icon is very close to the "delete" icon, which means that people are going to hit delete accidentally a lot of the time.
  4. It seems that across the site, what used to be "private" comments are now "public" comments. I'm not sure what context "public" comments show up in, but this is a poor labelling choice that makes me concerned that my private comments are now being made public.
  5. The editing form itself, which I have not depicted here, is a design disaster.

Functional issues, such as the one depicted below in which I can't edit the "public" comment on one of my coins, will presumably be cleared up with time but makes Numista essentially unusable at the moment. In addition to this, the editing form is either so non-intuitive that a software developer of 30 years can't figure out how to use it, or it doesn't work at all. I can't actually tell which it is at the moment.



It is heartbreaking to see a system that has been so good that I have come to depend on it completely being mangled like this and it is possibly the final straw in my growing disillusionment with Numista and Numista's management.

The problem, I think, is that Xavier built a really excellent tool and, instead of everyone recognising that it was, effectively, functionally complete for most people, the ambition of current Numista management to supplant Krause has blinded them to the fact that adding complexity destroys the elegance and usefulness of the original product. In software terms, this is a textbook case of "feature creep".

With regard to the values functionality, which seem to have been the main driver of this change, I would remind you of how little regard the forum in general has for the Numista Rarity Index value. A similar problem is going to happen here in that the value will not be accurate for most coins. The price most people pay for low-value coins is not reflective of the actual coin value because these not only come from bulk bins in coin stores or markets, but also vary considerably based on the country in which they were bought. In the most optimistic imagining, these values will only be useful for high-end coins that are sold individually. If non-specialist shops that happen to sell coins start using a Numista-based valuation system, it could have the result of artificially inflating the prices of lower-value coins and being detrimental to the hobby itself.

There is nothing positive that I can say about this new functionality. I am 100% certain that this will have a negative impact on the number of people currently using Numista, and also on the number of new users that sign up. All I can recommend is that the management team takes a step back, focuses on the original functionality and user-case for Numista, and asks themselves what they have actually done with this latest "upgrade". My opinion is that the only option is to roll back to the Numista that we all know and love, and my hope is that we tone down the general rhetoric of wanting to "outgrow Krause" and get back to provding something that people actually need.

And for the angry mob that will inevitably jump onto this post and remind me that other people have edited and added for more coins that I, I won't be responding to any replies. Doing so has made the Numista forums seem extremely unpleasant in the past. I assure you that I know what I am talking about. I've been a software developer for three decades and I've collected coins for longer than that, so I can assure you that my opinion is well-grounded in real-world experience. Rather than answering comments, I think my time would be better spent working on my own coin database.
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 198
When I first looked at one of the new pages I thought it was awful. What have you done? :snif:

But after starting to get my head around what you are trying to do I can see the potential for what it can do, so I will go along with it. It is good how you can show the grades of your swaps but it will be a big job to enter them all :( 8. :~ :`

It looks like I will need to check through my full collection to remove comments that relate only to my swaps that are now appearing against both my collection and swap coins. I understand that it was not possible to differentiate, so the comments had to be placed against both. 8~

Regards Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
Stavros
Joined: 30-Dec-2014
Posts: 322
First of all, thanks a lot Xavier for this new big update for Numista! This update was awaited by a lot of people. My personal opinion is that with a few tweaks, the new value system can provide a reliable source of pricing of coins.

I want to suggest that there should be a way to insert values for coins you do not have in your collections. At least referees should be able to do that. The way I see it, is to be mandatory to enter value, grade and a link to an auction house/eBay or something like that so the value is documented. This of course, is more important for older/ancient coins that are scarce and no-one or only a few people on the site have these coins.

I have to agree that the new update has affected the functionality of the coin database, but on the other hand, if one collects rarer coins, the new system makes it easier to categorise and value their collections. For example, if you have two examples of a rare coin that are graded as XF and one of them has a scratch, that will affect the price of it. And differences like this makes a huge impact on prices on high-end or rare coins.

Of course, I get the problem that you can't add a lot of coins at the same time and that for issues that have a large minting period with several mintmarks can make it look like a mess. But as Xavier will implement, making an option to enter coins with the old way, will appease many of the worries states here.

I've seen some comments here that by adding values on Numista, the aim is to compete with Krause. How I see it, Krause starts to become obsolete in the new digital age we are living, and why can't a non-profit webpage step up and have a part in the coin pricing area?

And please give constructive feedback on how to improve the new update, and do not render it completely useless before you have the time to test it!
Referee for Norway and Kingdom of Cyprus
Cyrillius Numista team
Joined: 5-Jun-2013
Posts: 1094
I lacked only two things: personal comments and cost. I thought this could be also simple and understandable, for example:
rysiek
Joined: 18-Apr-2012
Posts: 102
Quote: "Cyrillius"​I lacked only two things: personal comments and cost. I thought this could also be simple and understandable, for example:

​100% support for your suggestion.
cro321
Joined: 25-Mar-2016
Posts: 220
I like the new version and the extra options it presents however my collecting interests are very narrow and I don't have many coins, I can see why members with large collections like the old version better.

My only concern is with the pricing and it's the same concern Oklahoman brought up earlier which was answered to some degree however I still think it's too subjective and open to manipulation. I'm also concerned this will start a trend of swapping by "Numista value" based on a few biased values entered by members instead of catalogue value. Personally I'd be happier if values displayed on Numista were catalogue values even if catalogue values can be over or under priced.

Anyway, congratulations to the admin team on this large update and thank you for keeping this awesome site running! :)
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Hello andrewdotcoza,
Thanks for your detailed feedback. The display should already be slightly better following the recent fixes, but the general feeling probably stays the same. I'll try to consider all your points. For the moment, let me answer some of them.​
  • The old personal comments were visible when other users were looking at your swap list or your collection (if you allow other users to view those lists). This will remain the same with the new public comment. Private comments are never shown to other people than yourself.
  • The bug which led to the database error was fixed.
GiannaReggio
Joined: 27-Nov-2015
Posts: 76
Anyone using a Macinstosh has tried this new version  ?
CirculableCoins
andrewdotcoza
Joined: 29-Sep-2013
Posts: 109
Quote: "Xavier"​Hello andrewdotcoza,
​Thanks for your detailed feedback. The display should already be slightly better following the recent fixes, but the general feeling probably stays the same. I'll try to consider all your points. For the moment, let me answer some of them.​

  • The old personal comments were visible when other users were looking at your swap list or your collection (if you allow other users to view those lists). This will remain the same with the new public comment. Private comments are never shown to other people than yourself.

  • The bug which led to the database error was fixed.

Thank you for the reply, Xavier.

Here is a new software issue I have encountered. See this list of my Mozambican Escudos:



If I click the "edit" icon on any of the first three, the pop-up opens as expected. On the last three, however, the page just reloads. If I take a look at the JavaScript console, I see the following message being generated: "Uncaught SyntaxError: Invalid or unexpected token."​

I am using Chrome 64.0.3282.167 on MacOS 10.13.3. I get the same problem using Firefox 58.0.2. When I tried Firefox, it was with a completely clear cache.

Perhaps the fact that I "tag" coins with information using square brackets in the comment (now "public comment") field is a problem. However, I had successfully changed the 3rd coin in the list from "[Envelope]" to "[Album]" immediately before encountering this error.

All subsequent coins on the page (different coin types) work OK. So far I've found this problem only in this list of 1 Escudos.
coinsmor
Joined: 2-Dec-2010
Posts: 60
Xavier forgive me I opened a new discussion without realizing that you had an open one.
I and all the collectors will have to thank you for life for creating this site.
The new version for those like me who has a large collection is really too cumbersome and not very intuitive. The visibility of double coins in swaps has practically disappeared.
Time to insert double coins and triple compared to before.
I also think it is totally useless to indicate the price because most of us have collected coins in exchange from other users in exchange and therefore what is the price for these coins? I also add that after 40 years of numismatic experience I realized that there is no price for a coin.
If you're not careful you risk paying a 100 coin from a merchant and finding it maybe in better condition at 70 from another merchant.
moreover I buy block coins so how can I think of sharing the price?
The krause certainly shows non-market values but as I believe all users agree that by using that parameter both the tutors benefit from the respective currencies of this price discrepancy and therefore in many years I found myself splendidly using this parameter for exchanges. If you look at my feedbecks I think all the users who exchanged with me have been happy too.
Add also that your site has now reached an audience of users worldwide so buy a contemporary coins in Italy in euros the value may coincide with the nominal. buy the same coins in australia, japan or chile I think the price is very different. Therefore this would be to falsely affect the price for all users of the issuing country that would be madly to rise the price of coins that can be easily found at the nominal.
I hope Moreno was helpful
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 1807
Hi Coinsmor,

I agree on ALL of your comments.

I think it'll be very difficult to swap over numista in the future BECAUSE of the values. I have coins, which I have over paid, and coins from batches, where the price is in the cellar. The first type goes into my swap list with the price I paid and the second type enters with the SCWC value of the date of entry.... and I never update the prices except in rare cases, where a swapper insists in swapping to the same scwc edition prices! Anyway I have far too many doubles (>15.000) so I have given up registering them in numista years ago!!!!

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/
hoffman12
Joined: 1-Sep-2016
Posts: 107
Hello,

I think that new Numista version is better, but it will take few weeks to get used to it. However I have some questions about new version.

I found out that some my coins are counted twice. Here is the example based on 10 Lipa coin from Croatia.
I have 24 coins in my collection. 23 of them are for swap and one coin is in my album.
This is also shown on "My coins from Croatia list" - Total: 24, To exchange: 23.
On the photo below there are just shown coins from 2001, 2007 and 2009. As you can see all coins from mentioned years I have for swap, but they are listed twice.



However, when I go to the 10 Lipa coin page it is written that I have 47 coins in my collection and 23 for swap. Swap number is right, but in my collection number is 23+24 (number for swap + total number [see photo above]). Why coins are counted twice?



Here is the reason in my opinion (see 2009 line for clarification). I have entered the same number in VF and XF (2+1) as I entered for swap (3) because all the 2009 10 Lipa coins from my collection are for swap. Since the number of total and to exchange coins on country list is correct and not count twice I cannot see why is this a problem on the coin page.

Thanks for the help.
Numista referee for Liechtenstein, Ragusa and Saint Barthelemy
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Quote: "andrewdotcoza"​​If I click the "edit" icon on any of the first three, the pop-up opens as expected. On the last three, however, the page just reloads. If I take a look at the JavaScript console, I see the following message being generated: "Uncaught SyntaxError: Invalid or unexpected token."​


​This issue is now also fixed :)
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 1654
I don't want to be negative but what a disaster, the biggest disappointment in my 45 years of coin collecting. I loved Numista so much, so easy, so user friendly. I spent at least 8 hours a day on Numista, now for the moment I'm so disappointed I'm even asking myself if I would stay.
I understand people want/like new features, but now you made a mess of it. In stead of just adding the new features, you've thrown away the strength of Numista: the easiness and user-friendliness, especially for date collectors.
For example a type with dozens and dozens year lines like the German pfennig coins (https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces850.html). In the past, I just went to the right type and start filling in the boxes, for my collection and for my doubles. Soooooooooooo easy. Now I first have to click on every year line to get the fill in menu. Then I have to click again to save it and to go back to the catalogue. For this type I have almost all the dates and mint letters, so 135 clicks extra for the year lines and 135 clicks extra to save and go back. I can't fill in the coins for my collection and my doubles at the same time. So for my doubles I have to repeat the whole process again. Half of the dates/mint marks I have double: so another 70 clicks extra for the year lines, another 70 clicks extra to choose from no to yes for exchange, and another 70 clicks extra to save and go back to the catalogue. Conclusion: with this new version I need 480 clicks extra, just for this 1 type. That's pure madness. I still have to add at least 80.000 coins. No way I want to/can do this with this user-unfriendly version.
And then I'm not even talking about the endless scrolling. For every coin you add you get an extra line, for every coin you have double, again an extra line. So for my example of the 10 pfennig there will be added another 205 lines! Can you imagine how long that first page of the Federal Republic of Germany will be, with all those coins with so many different dates/mint marks, all on the same page?

So please Xavier, combine the two versions and give us back our user friendly Numista. I'm sure it can't be a problem to make the fill in version like it was before combined with the new menu but only for private/public comments and buying value. Then you have the best of both worlds. I'm begging you.
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 1807
Quote: "Essor Prof"​I don't want to be negative but what a disaster, the biggest disappointment in my 45 years of coin collecting. I loved Numista so much, so easy, so user friendly. I spent at least 8 hours a day on Numista, now for the moment I'm so disappointed I'm even asking myself if I would stay.
​I understand people want/like new features, but now you made a mess of it. In stead of just adding the new features, you've thrown away the strength of Numista: the easiness and user-friendliness, especially for date collectors.
​For example a type with dozens and dozens year lines like the German pfennig coins (https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces850.html). In the past, I just went to the right type and start filling in the boxes, for my collection and for my doubles. Soooooooooooo easy. Now I first have to click on every year line to get the fill in menu. Then I have to click again to save it and to go back to the catalogue. For this type I have almost all the dates and mint letters, so 135 clicks extra for the year lines and 135 clicks extra to save and go back. I can't fill in the coins for my collection and my doubles at the same time. So for my doubles I have to repeat the whole process again. Half of the dates/mint marks I have double: so another 70 clicks extra for the year lines, another 70 clicks extra to choose from no to yes for exchange, and another 70 clicks extra to save and go back to the catalogue. Conclusion: with this new version I need 480 clicks extra, just for this 1 type. That's pure madness. I still have to add at least 80.000 coins. No way I want to/can do this with this user-unfriendly version.
​And then I'm not even talking about the endless scrolling. For every coin you add you get an extra line, for every coin you have double, again an extra line. So for my example of the 10 pfennig there will be added another 205 lines! Can you imagine how long that first page of the Federal Republic of Germany will be, with all those coins with so many different dates/mint marks, all on the same page?

​So please Xavier, combine the two versions and give us back our user friendly Numista. I'm sure it can't be a problem to make the fill in version like it was before combined with the new menu but only for private/public comments and buying value. Then you have the best of both worlds. I'm begging you.
​Hear, hear, I'm of your opinion.

"Curiosity killed the Cat". Here you can say "Trying to be more than SCWC killed Numista".

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/
Ronald70
Joined: 19-Jul-2013
Posts: 94
Hi I think the new functions are not bad but there seems to be a bug. The new version counts coins twice in those cases where you have coins to swap. In this case I have 3 coins of this type. One in my collection and two for swap. the system says I have 5 in my collection and 2 for swap. This is annoying... Hope it can be fixed.

Japoivvb
Joined: 3-Aug-2017
Posts: 14
My support for the new version, it covers demanded functionalities and the interface goes on user-friendly from my point of view. By default humans do not like changes, but with the time everybody will get used it , I hope.

I work in IT and it is hard to implement a solution that likes to all clients, as we say in Spain "nunca llueve a gusta de todos"(it never rains as everybody wants).

I am pretty sure Numista Team has worked hard to deliver us this, so if we have to do an extra effort to keep/edit our collection, it is fair.

By the way, is there already any coin with calculated value?
Sulfur
Joined: 11-Jun-2016
Posts: 244
Right now, I am finding the update interesting. I will give it time before I make any of my own opinions, but I do have a couple questions:

1) For the values of the coins, would it be possible to indicate a coin is only worth its bullion value? That way, the value would already be displayed at the bottom of the page, and one would not have to be constantly changing the value to match what its base metal is worth.

2) Would it be possible to add values to coins I do not have in my collection? Take this one schilling piece from the Free City of Riga, for example: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces42146.html. Although I am putting together a date set of that type (with thirteen different ones so far), I only have one date marked in my collection. Right now, I would only be able to plug in the value of 1577, which is the most common date. I have a 158L one which I know is worth more, and I do not have a 1574 one which I know is worth even more. And this is not the only type of coin I have multiples of that are not marked in my collection...
andrewdotcoza
Joined: 29-Sep-2013
Posts: 109
Quote: "Japoivvb"​I am pretty sure Numista Team has worked hard to deliver us this, so if we have to do an extra effort to keep/edit our collection, it is fair.

​Wait! What?
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 1654
Quote: "Japoivvb"​My support for the new version, it covers demanded functionalities and the interface goes on user-friendly from my point of view.

​By the way, is there already any coin with calculated value?

Did you read my post? 480 clicks extra with the new version just to add my coins of just 1 type, and you call that "the interface goes on user-friendly from my point of view"? I wonder what your point of view is.

I even wonder what those "demanded functionalities" are? If there is anything unreliable and inaccurate then it is an average calculated value for a coin. There is no exact value for a coin. A coin can be much cheaper in one part of the world and more expensive at another place in the world. So at the end we will have here an average calculated value which means nothing to anyone. If the price we have to pay for this "functionality" is the loss of our easy and user-friendly coin management system and wonderful interface, it's the worst deal ever.
Cyrillius Numista team
Joined: 5-Jun-2013
Posts: 1094
Quote: "Essor Prof"​I don't want to be negative but what a disaster, the biggest disappointment in my 45 years of coin collecting. I loved Numista so much, so easy, so user friendly. I spent at least 8 hours a day on Numista, now for the moment I'm so disappointed I'm even asking myself if I would stay.
​I understand people want/like new features, but now you made a mess of it. In stead of just adding the new features, you've thrown away the strength of Numista: the easiness and user-friendliness, especially for date collectors.
​For example a type with dozens and dozens year lines like the German pfennig coins (https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces850.html). In the past, I just went to the right type and start filling in the boxes, for my collection and for my doubles. Soooooooooooo easy. Now I first have to click on every year line to get the fill in menu. Then I have to click again to save it and to go back to the catalogue. For this type I have almost all the dates and mint letters, so 135 clicks extra for the year lines and 135 clicks extra to save and go back. I can't fill in the coins for my collection and my doubles at the same time. So for my doubles I have to repeat the whole process again. Half of the dates/mint marks I have double: so another 70 clicks extra for the year lines, another 70 clicks extra to choose from no to yes for exchange, and another 70 clicks extra to save and go back to the catalogue. Conclusion: with this new version I need 480 clicks extra, just for this 1 type. That's pure madness. I still have to add at least 80.000 coins. No way I want to/can do this with this user-unfriendly version.
​And then I'm not even talking about the endless scrolling. For every coin you add you get an extra line, for every coin you have double, again an extra line. So for my example of the 10 pfennig there will be added another 205 lines! Can you imagine how long that first page of the Federal Republic of Germany will be, with all those coins with so many different dates/mint marks, all on the same page?

​So please Xavier, combine the two versions and give us back our user friendly Numista. I'm sure it can't be a problem to make the fill in version like it was before combined with the new menu but only for private/public comments and buying value. Then you have the best of both worlds. I'm begging you.
​I completely agree. Now Numista has become like any "other numismatic sites for the online collection." The site has definitely ceased to be the Numista we love. I can not accept it, I see no reason to accept it.
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 1654
Quote: "Cyrillius"​​​I completely agree. Now Numista has become like any "other numismatic sites for the online collection." The site has definitely ceased to be the Numista we love. I can not accept it, I see no reason to accept it.

​Glad I'm not the only one who detest the new version. I loved Numista soooo much and the new version took away all the joy I had in Numista the last several years. Numista always was with head and shoulders above any other numismatic website for coin management and now we're indeed just like any other user-unfriendly sites with a bad interface.
Like Cyrillius said, this is not the Numista we love and I can't accept it either. For me this is Black Sunday.
akadotour
Joined: 3-Jan-2015
Posts: 98
First off thank you for upgrade
adding personal comments is a great thing

(and i still hoping that one day will be a possibility to mark a certain year you do want not the whole km :)

and if there now possible to choose the grade then what to do with grades like: VF+ or FDC or Proof?
Maybe it has a sense to enlarge the scale for more flexibility?

anyway

one thing that is not that comfortable now in a new version - no dublicates of dates like it was before: for Arab countries, Israel... etc coins. Will it be back?

example:
5745 (1985)
5776 (2016)
mumi numi
mitino
Joined: 13-Jan-2014
Posts: 23
Quote: "Cyrillius"
Quote: "Essor Prof"​I don't want to be negative but what a disaster, the biggest disappointment in my 45 years of coin collecting. I loved Numista so much, so easy, so user friendly. I spent at least 8 hours a day on Numista, now for the moment I'm so disappointed I'm even asking myself if I would stay.
​​I understand people want/like new features, but now you made a mess of it. In stead of just adding the new features, you've thrown away the strength of Numista: the easiness and user-friendliness, especially for date collectors.
​​For example a type with dozens and dozens year lines like the German pfennig coins (https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces850.html). In the past, I just went to the right type and start filling in the boxes, for my collection and for my doubles. Soooooooooooo easy. Now I first have to click on every year line to get the fill in menu. Then I have to click again to save it and to go back to the catalogue. For this type I have almost all the dates and mint letters, so 135 clicks extra for the year lines and 135 clicks extra to save and go back. I can't fill in the coins for my collection and my doubles at the same time. So for my doubles I have to repeat the whole process again. Half of the dates/mint marks I have double: so another 70 clicks extra for the year lines, another 70 clicks extra to choose from no to yes for exchange, and another 70 clicks extra to save and go back to the catalogue. Conclusion: with this new version I need 480 clicks extra, just for this 1 type. That's pure madness. I still have to add at least 80.000 coins. No way I want to/can do this with this user-unfriendly version.
​​And then I'm not even talking about the endless scrolling. For every coin you add you get an extra line, for every coin you have double, again an extra line. So for my example of the 10 pfennig there will be added another 205 lines! Can you imagine how long that first page of the Federal Republic of Germany will be, with all those coins with so many different dates/mint marks, all on the same page?
​​
​​So please Xavier, combine the two versions and give us back our user friendly Numista. I'm sure it can't be a problem to make the fill in version like it was before combined with the new menu but only for private/public comments and buying value. Then you have the best of both worlds. I'm begging you.
​​I completely agree. Now Numista has become like any "other numismatic sites for the online collection." The site has definitely ceased to be the Numista we love. I can not accept it, I see no reason to accept it.
​I completely agree. Tomorrow I will receive by mail the next packet with coins. I do not see my comments to this exchange any more. When adding coins in a collection I will recall a bad word new design more than once. Still perhaps, it is better to return to the old website. Of course, it is a pity for the operation done by programmers. But it is doubtful improvings.
The cost of coins will not be crucial any. Everyone proceeds from the cost of a coin either at an auction, or at sellers of the city. Any other value will be accepted simply as information.
Loss of the friendly interface of that is not necessary.
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Quote: "Essor Prof"​So please Xavier, combine the two versions and give us back our user friendly Numista. I'm sure it can't be a problem to make the fill in version like it was before combined with the new menu but only for private/public comments and buying value. Then you have the best of both worlds. I'm begging you.
​I confirm there will be the choice to use the older version.
For the moment, it's technically not possible to roll-back to the old version for everyone, but the choice to use the older versions will be implemented soon.
mitino
Joined: 13-Jan-2014
Posts: 23
Quote: "akadotour"​First off thank you for upgrade
​adding personal comments is a great thing

​(and i still hoping that one day will be a possibility to mark a certain year you do want not the whole km :)

​and if there now possible to choose the grade then what to do with grades like: VF+ or FDC or Proof?
​Maybe it has a sense to enlarge the scale for more flexibility?

​anyway

​one thing that is not that comfortable now in a new version - no dublicates of dates like it was before: for Arab countries, Israel... etc coins. Will it be back?

​example:
​5745 (1985)
​5776 (2016)
​I have now looked at coins of Japan.
Only the Japanese dates and hieroglyphs.
It is awful.
And similar inconveniences, I am sure, still will be much.
For what there was everything to break?
Was to add a window with the comment and a window with the coin buying price enough (if it is interesting to someone).
rysiek
Joined: 18-Apr-2012
Posts: 102
Quote: "Cyrillius"​I lacked only two things: personal comments and cost. I thought this could be also simple and understandable, for example:

​A solution satisfying supporters and opponents of the new version of the interface was given.
This solution should satisfy all Numista users.
PhilipBe
Joined: 28-Oct-2012
Posts: 34
I don' t see the improvement either.

It is not possible to "see" your collection.
You now have to read each word to know what you have.

Indeed please make it possible to use the old viewer again.

Kind regards
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 1654
Quote: "mitino"​​​I have now looked at coins of Japan.
​Only the Japanese dates and hieroglyphs.
​It is awful.
​And similar inconveniences, I am sure, still will be much.
​For what there was everything to break?
​Was to add a window with the comment and a window with the coin buying price enough (if it is interesting to someone).

​Oh oh oh, the more I found out, the worse it get. I just checked Japan too and it's just awful. Only regnal years anymore, no more Christian dates. The same for Arabic countries.

I see so many disadvantages in the new version and NONE advantage.

Disadvantages:
- Horrible interface. Don't tell me anyone really likes the new interface with the abundant icons and abundant extra lines?
- Much more difficult to add your coins: much more clicking, much more time needed, coins for your collection and your swap list must be added separately, ....
- Endless scrolling to the pages because of all those extra lines.
- No more Christian dates for countries using another script (Japan, Arabic countries, Thailand, ...)

And what are the supposedly advantages?
- Values? An average calculated value. For one part the value is too high, for the other part the value is too low.
- Personal comment. We already had a comment box.

These little advantages really aren't in proportion to the big disadvantages.
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 1654
Quote: "Xavier"​​​I confirm there will be the choice to use the older version.
​For the moment, it's technically not possible to roll-back to the old version for everyone, but the choice to use the older versions will be implemented soon.

​Thank you very much Xavier. I know I sounded negative and I'm 100 % sure you've made the changes with the best intentions. I've always loved Numista so much and I'm very grateful because without you there was no Numista. But today you've ruined it for me but I'm so happy there will be a choice to use the older version again soon. Any idea what "soon" means? Are we talking about hours or days? I can't wait to get it back.
andrewdotcoza
Joined: 29-Sep-2013
Posts: 109
Quote: "Xavier"​​I confirm there will be the choice to use the older version.
​For the moment, it's technically not possible to roll-back to the old version for everyone, but the choice to use the older versions will be implemented soon.
​When, Xavier? I think you have a responsibility to your users to make this happen as immediately as possible.

And why can’t you roll back? Surely you have a backup of the old database and code? I’m sure everyone would much rather redo and changes they actually managed to make on this “dog’s breakfast” system if that meant getting the proper Numista back!
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4372
For me, input of coins is actually faster now. Both normally and using fast input. I was always slowed down by constant need of putting the numbers in. But I guess that is a matter of perspective and also of how you use computer (or any other device).

I agree that there are more lines than usual and that it is harder to read "your collection"

What the pluses are - you can input grades of swap coins, add personal comments AND comments for every coin you have, which, as someone mentioned, is quite nice for rarer and older coinage.

You can add coin into collection without grade at all now as well.

Another small plus might be values in the future.

And you were just promised old system if you hate changes generally, or just this one in particular.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Bohemia,Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.
rysiek
Joined: 18-Apr-2012
Posts: 102
Quote: "Jarcek"​For me, input of coins is actually faster now. Both normally and using fast input. I was always slowed down by constant need of putting the numbers in. But I guess that is a matter of perspective and also of how you use computer (or any other device).

​I agree that there are more lines than usual and that it is harder to read "your collection"

​What the pluses are - you can input grades of swap coins, add personal comments AND comments for every coin you have, which, as someone mentioned, is quite nice for rarer and older coinage.

​You can add coin into collection without grade at all now as well.

​Another small plus might be values in the future.

​And you were just promised old system if you hate changes generally, or just this one in particular.
​Gentlemen of the Numista team as indicated by the above comments, the new version is widely criticized. It's time to realize that it has been poorly tested before implementation.
I am looking forward to returning to the old version.
coinsmor
Joined: 2-Dec-2010
Posts: 60
Xavier you're always the best. I kindly ask you to insert me among those to which you will make available the old version thanks. The new one is unmanageable for me.
MirecRKK
Joined: 18-Nov-2017
Posts: 12
sorry but i didnt like this new version, and i hope it will be soon returned to old system, adding new coins to collection is uselessly too long only for prices? i know price what i buy, why i write it here? if want a value of coin i search for it. really not good for me this new version!
Oklahoman
Joined: 20-Dec-2015
Posts: 1442
Folks have been asking for this for a long time. I'm going to give it a chance. Every time we updated the website at APMEX or everytime my school district does it now there is a period of adjustment....I don't understand all the changes but I bet it gets better folks.
apuking
Joined: 31-Oct-2012
Posts: 4367
People always want change but then when it's happening everyone complains about it (;0

We will get used to this and it actually brings quite some additional nice features ;) that I'm sure we will get to like more and more.

As with everything new it is when newly implemented it is not 100% perfect and with information from us and some adjustments it will become the way everyone wants without problems :wiz:.

Paul
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with daily updates @numisnautiker
letocapo
Joined: 13-Jun-2015
Posts: 2
Quote: "andrewdotcoza"​Someone needs to be honest here, and not tiptoe around with a long opening paragraph about how grateful we are for everyone's work. Of course we are grateful, and that goes without saying, but we should be able to deliver honest feedback without pitchforks and burning torches coming out like they usually do.

​I feel that this change is horrible, and my initial reaction is that it makes Numista unusable for my purposes. Consider these two screenshots:



​From a software design perspective, it is impossible to consider the second one an improvement on the first one. In terms of both readability and editability, it is a large step backwards. Here is why:

  1. It is much more difficult to see, at a glance, what grade of coin you have for a particular year because you actually have to read the grade text rather than just being able to see what you have from the grid display of input boxes on the original version.

  2. You have to click on a cryptic icon in order to make any changes, whereas before you could make changes directly in the listing.

  3. The "edit" icon is very close to the "delete" icon, which means that people are going to hit delete accidentally a lot of the time.

  4. It seems that across the site, what used to be "private" comments are now "public" comments. I'm not sure what context "public" comments show up in, but this is a poor labelling choice that makes me concerned that my private comments are now being made public.

  5. The editing form itself, which I have not depicted here, is a design disaster.


​Functional issues, such as the one depicted below in which I can't edit the "public" comment on one of my coins, will presumably be cleared up with time but makes Numista essentially unusable at the moment. In addition to this, the editing form is either so non-intuitive that a software developer of 30 years can't figure out how to use it, or it doesn't work at all. I can't actually tell which it is at the moment.



​It is heartbreaking to see a system that has been so good that I have come to depend on it completely being mangled like this and it is possibly the final straw in my growing disillusionment with Numista and Numista's management.

​The problem, I think, is that Xavier built a really excellent tool and, instead of everyone recognising that it was, effectively, functionally complete for most people, the ambition of current Numista management to supplant Krause has blinded them to the fact that adding complexity destroys the elegance and usefulness of the original product. In software terms, this is a textbook case of "feature creep".

​With regard to the values functionality, which seem to have been the main driver of this change, I would remind you of how little regard the forum in general has for the Numista Rarity Index value. A similar problem is going to happen here in that the value will not be accurate for most coins. The price most people pay for low-value coins is not reflective of the actual coin value because these not only come from bulk bins in coin stores or markets, but also vary considerably based on the country in which they were bought. In the most optimistic imagining, these values will only be useful for high-end coins that are sold individually. If non-specialist shops that happen to sell coins start using a Numista-based valuation system, it could have the result of artificially inflating the prices of lower-value coins and being detrimental to the hobby itself.

​There is nothing positive that I can say about this new functionality. I am 100% certain that this will have a negative impact on the number of people currently using Numista, and also on the number of new users that sign up. All I can recommend is that the management team takes a step back, focuses on the original functionality and user-case for Numista, and asks themselves what they have actually done with this latest "upgrade". My opinion is that the only option is to roll back to the Numista that we all know and love, and my hope is that we tone down the general rhetoric of wanting to "outgrow Krause" and get back to provding something that people actually need.

​And for the angry mob that will inevitably jump onto this post and remind me that other people have edited and added for more coins that I, I won't be responding to any replies. Doing so has made the Numista forums seem extremely unpleasant in the past. I assure you that I know what I am talking about. I've been a software developer for three decades and I've collected coins for longer than that, so I can assure you that my opinion is well-grounded in real-world experience. Rather than answering comments, I think my time would be better spent working on my own coin database.
​Amen!
chrismck
Joined: 27-Sep-2012
Posts: 177
I've been using the new features a lot today and I'm ok with them. My pet peeve is forced mouse-keyboard switching. So being able to add and delete a coin using the mouse only is a good improvement (unless I want to add text, which I typically don't).

It does bug me that after I type in a country name and select the country, I have to switch to the mouse to move the focus to the year or denomination, rather than being able to tab there. That's not a new problem, but it would be nice to get it fixed.
Sakrificed
Joined: 9-Jan-2015
Posts: 96
Quote: "andrewdotcoza"​Someone needs to be honest here, and not tiptoe around with a long opening paragraph about how grateful we are for everyone's work. Of course we are grateful, and that goes without saying, but we should be able to deliver honest feedback without pitchforks and burning torches coming out like they usually do.

​I feel that this change is horrible, and my initial reaction is that it makes Numista unusable for my purposes. Consider these two screenshots:



​From a software design perspective, it is impossible to consider the second one an improvement on the first one. In terms of both readability and editability, it is a large step backwards. Here is why:

  1. It is much more difficult to see, at a glance, what grade of coin you have for a particular year because you actually have to read the grade text rather than just being able to see what you have from the grid display of input boxes on the original version.

  2. You have to click on a cryptic icon in order to make any changes, whereas before you could make changes directly in the listing.

  3. The "edit" icon is very close to the "delete" icon, which means that people are going to hit delete accidentally a lot of the time.

  4. It seems that across the site, what used to be "private" comments are now "public" comments. I'm not sure what context "public" comments show up in, but this is a poor labelling choice that makes me concerned that my private comments are now being made public.

  5. The editing form itself, which I have not depicted here, is a design disaster.​​

Please let me use your picture to explain my ideas

This is my idea abot upgradable fast input

Catalog editor for Thailand and Japan.
Contact me via facebook if you want to swap/buy. See my profile.
nthn
Joined: 2-Mar-2015
Posts: 1882
I think some of the complication was being able to add a comment and value for each coin that you have, even if it is from the same year. So having the one line system as pictured wouldn't work as far as the goals of this update are concerned.
Referee for Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands, Italian states, Niue, Order of Malta, Pitcairn Islands, Samoa, American Samoa, Sarawak, Tibet and Zambia. All of my swap list is for sale.
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 2127
Quote: "Sakrificed"​​​Please let me use your picture to explain my ideas

​This is my idea abot upgradable fast input

​I like this idea, especially since I've bought coins in both SEK, USD, EUR and GBP. To convert these currencies back and forth might affect the value since I only use the Google converter - which changes every day.
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17
January First-of-May
Joined: 10-Apr-2016
Posts: 528
I'm forced to enter my purchase prices in rubles; and I did pay for most coins I bought in rubles, so I guess it makes some sense.

However, rubles from 2011-14 and 2015-present have fundamentally different exchange rates; if I bought a coin for 200 rubles in 2014 or earlier (not uncommon in my collection), that doesn't mean $3.5, it means $7.
owatchman
Joined: 24-Jan-2017
Posts: 128
Quote: "Essor Prof"​I don't want to be negative but what a disaster, the biggest disappointment in my 45 years of coin collecting. I loved Numista so much, so easy, so user friendly. I spent at least 8 hours a day on Numista, now for the moment I'm so disappointed I'm even asking myself if I would stay.
​I understand people want/like new features, but now you made a mess of it. In stead of just adding the new features, you've thrown away the strength of Numista: the easiness and user-friendliness, especially for date collectors.
​For example a type with dozens and dozens year lines like the German pfennig coins (https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces850.html). In the past, I just went to the right type and start filling in the boxes, for my collection and for my doubles. Soooooooooooo easy. Now I first have to click on every year line to get the fill in menu. Then I have to click again to save it and to go back to the catalogue. For this type I have almost all the dates and mint letters, so 135 clicks extra for the year lines and 135 clicks extra to save and go back. I can't fill in the coins for my collection and my doubles at the same time. So for my doubles I have to repeat the whole process again. Half of the dates/mint marks I have double: so another 70 clicks extra for the year lines, another 70 clicks extra to choose from no to yes for exchange, and another 70 clicks extra to save and go back to the catalogue. Conclusion: with this new version I need 480 clicks extra, just for this 1 type. That's pure madness. I still have to add at least 80.000 coins. No way I want to/can do this with this user-unfriendly version.
​And then I'm not even talking about the endless scrolling. For every coin you add you get an extra line, for every coin you have double, again an extra line. So for my example of the 10 pfennig there will be added another 205 lines! Can you imagine how long that first page of the Federal Republic of Germany will be, with all those coins with so many different dates/mint marks, all on the same page?

​So please Xavier, combine the two versions and give us back our user friendly Numista. I'm sure it can't be a problem to make the fill in version like it was before combined with the new menu but only for private/public comments and buying value. Then you have the best of both worlds. I'm begging you.
​I agree with this assessment 100%. It sounds as if there are some who appreciate the new version, but I think the majority feel anywhere from mild dislike to loathing of the new version. If we would have the best of both worlds and be able to choose, great. But otherwise, you really should bring back the old, simple, and user-friendly Numista.
mitino
Joined: 13-Jan-2014
Posts: 23
It seems to me, it was necessary to add the choice of the comment to the old version (personal or public). And on it to finish reconstruction.
Still I consider that emergence of cost of coins will have the same value as the existing Numista index. Will display a certain average value as average temperature on hospital.
Nobody disturbed persons interested to specify the cost of purchase of a coin in the comment (I and did in certain cases).
I hope common sense will prevail and we will return to the fallen in love friendly old website.
MicheleTN
Joined: 5-Apr-2015
Posts: 48
Please return to the old interface. It was intuitive and fast. It is now cumbersome. One thing that stops many collectors from entering Numista is the time it takes to insert their coins. Now everything becomes more complicated and slow. Thank you
fryant
Joined: 28-Feb-2016
Posts: 91
Quote: "Sakrificed"​Please let me use your picture to explain my ideas

​This is my idea abot upgradable fast input

​I like the idea of having values in Numista, but I agree with the opinion that the UI needs a bit of work. Sakrificed's idea is a good approach, I think, however, it still needs a bit of work as well.

There must be a way to input the value of multiple grades in the same coin, for instance if I have a VF one that cost 2 euros and an UNC one that cost 5 euros, I should be able to input both. Maybe a grade selection drop down menu just to the left of the currency might work.

Also, with that layout we cannot see the overall values. Maybe to the right of the value input box, there can be an icon (like an arrow or something like that) that, when you click on it, the overall values for the year and the grade can appear, and if you click on it again, they hide.

And finally, if I have 4 doubles of one given coin, how can I input that? Does the checkbox does automatically for me?
numinis
Joined: 19-Aug-2015
Posts: 147
Quote: "fryant"
​There must be a way to input the value of multiple grades in the same coin, for instance if I have a VF one that cost 2 euros and an UNC one that cost 5 euros, I should be able to input both. Maybe a grade selection drop down menu just to the left of the currency might work.
This is already implemented. For every year, you can add many coins with different grades, prices, and/or comments.
​​
Quote: "fryant"
​And finally, if I have 4 doubles of one given coin, how can I input that? Does the checkbox does automatically for me?
​This is already implemented too. Click "add", then select a grade (not mandatory), select "for exchange" and click "save". Repeat this four times and you will have four coins on your swap list.
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4372
And you do not have to do it 4 times if you have doubles of same grade or if you do not care about those - do it just once and select quatity - 4 and it is done. You have 4 doubles added.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Bohemia,Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.
mitino
Joined: 13-Jan-2014
Posts: 23
Quote: "numinis"
Quote: "fryant"
​​There must be a way to input the value of multiple grades in the same coin, for instance if I have a VF one that cost 2 euros and an UNC one that cost 5 euros, I should be able to input both. Maybe a grade selection drop down menu just to the left of the currency might work.
​ This is already implemented. For every year, you can add many coins with different grades, prices, and/or comments.
​​​

Quote: "fryant"
​​And finally, if I have 4 doubles of one given coin, how can I input that? Does the checkbox does automatically for me?
​​This is already implemented too. Click "add", then select a grade (not mandatory), select "for exchange" and click "save". Repeat this four times and you will have four coins on your swap list.
​I won't understand why to you this information?
As a result several percent of collectors, and the main part, even everything will use it, received inconvenience of swap and maintaining collections.
ALLRED1950
Joined: 2-Jul-2012
Posts: 3797
OK it is new and everyone has to learn how to use. Gave it a chance. We can only learn from mistakes, right. Pick up what we have learned and go forward. I am not sure one way or another yet. But looks like it will be a lot more work to add coins and swaps are going to be harder. In my thinking. We may go back to the old way or find ways to fixes this one. It is all a learning event. Let's not all get up a wall an stay behind it, with are heads in the sand. Let us help fix what we don't like, or give our thoughts. In a way that will help.
AT THIS TIME IAM NO LONGER SWAPPING. I need too put things in order. And take some time off. Thank you yours daryl
Palinka83
Joined: 22-Dec-2013
Posts: 57
I have some major problems with the new design and functionality.
As I do appreciate some new functions i.e. private notes, I don't really need others i. e. the price (if it's just for me I now can use private notes)
I also do miss the compactness of the old version.

To the problems:
I have 3 pieces of this Swedish coins as correctly shown in my 'my collection' overview. Looking below there are already 5 counts.

Clicking at the coin's details is where somehow the system messes up the collection because now it shows I've got 5 pieces of this coin, 2 of them for exchange (It seems out of 'I have one which is for exchange' the system made 'I have one AND another one for exchange):


I've found the issue described above for several coins in my collection already
BryanJ
Joined: 31-Dec-2015
Posts: 388
Quote: "Stavros"​I've seen some comments here that by adding values on Numista, the aim is to compete with Krause. How I see it, Krause starts to become obsolete in the new digital age we are living, and why can't a non-profit webpage step up and have a part in the coin pricing area?
Krause is not obsolete, they still are the reference for book catalogs and online catalogs as their values are used on one of the big grading companies' website.
Krause is indeed overwhelmed by the number of joke coins minted for collectors and that's where a website with an army of unpaid grunts has a clear advantage over them, but that certainly doesn't mean that Numista's values will be more accurate or trustworthy.
BryanJ
Joined: 31-Dec-2015
Posts: 388
Quote: "andrewdotcoza"​​I feel that this change is horrible, and my initial reaction is that it makes Numista unusable for my purposes. Consider these two screenshots:



​From a software design perspective, it is impossible to consider the second one an improvement on the first one. In terms of both readability and editability, it is a large step backwards. Here is why:

  1. It is much more difficult to see, at a glance, what grade of coin you have for a particular year because you actually have to read the grade text rather than just being able to see what you have from the grid display of input boxes on the original version.

  2. You have to click on a cryptic icon in order to make any changes, whereas before you could make changes directly in the listing.

  3. The "edit" icon is very close to the "delete" icon, which means that people are going to hit delete accidentally a lot of the time.

  4. It seems that across the site, what used to be "private" comments are now "public" comments. I'm not sure what context "public" comments show up in, but this is a poor labelling choice that makes me concerned that my private comments are now being made public.

  5. The editing form itself, which I have not depicted here, is a design disaster.


​Functional issues, such as the one depicted below in which I can't edit the "public" comment on one of my coins, will presumably be cleared up with time but makes Numista essentially unusable at the moment. In addition to this, the editing form is either so non-intuitive that a software developer of 30 years can't figure out how to use it, or it doesn't work at all. I can't actually tell which it is at the moment.



​It is heartbreaking to see a system that has been so good that I have come to depend on it completely being mangled like this and it is possibly the final straw in my growing disillusionment with Numista and Numista's management.

​The problem, I think, is that Xavier built a really excellent tool and, instead of everyone recognising that it was, effectively, functionally complete for most people, the ambition of current Numista management to supplant Krause has blinded them to the fact that adding complexity destroys the elegance and usefulness of the original product. In software terms, this is a textbook case of "feature creep".

​With regard to the values functionality, which seem to have been the main driver of this change, I would remind you of how little regard the forum in general has for the Numista Rarity Index value. A similar problem is going to happen here in that the value will not be accurate for most coins. The price most people pay for low-value coins is not reflective of the actual coin value because these not only come from bulk bins in coin stores or markets, but also vary considerably based on the country in which they were bought. In the most optimistic imagining, these values will only be useful for high-end coins that are sold individually. If non-specialist shops that happen to sell coins start using a Numista-based valuation system, it could have the result of artificially inflating the prices of lower-value coins and being detrimental to the hobby itself.

​There is nothing positive that I can say about this new functionality. I am 100% certain that this will have a negative impact on the number of people currently using Numista, and also on the number of new users that sign up. All I can recommend is that the management team takes a step back, focuses on the original functionality and user-case for Numista, and asks themselves what they have actually done with this latest "upgrade". My opinion is that the only option is to roll back to the Numista that we all know and love, and my hope is that we tone down the general rhetoric of wanting to "outgrow Krause" and get back to provding something that people actually need.

​And for the angry mob that will inevitably jump onto this post and remind me that other people have edited and added for more coins that I, I won't be responding to any replies. Doing so has made the Numista forums seem extremely unpleasant in the past. I assure you that I know what I am talking about. I've been a software developer for three decades and I've collected coins for longer than that, so I can assure you that my opinion is well-grounded in real-world experience. Rather than answering comments, I think my time would be better spent working on my own coin database.

I don't think I can add much to that, you've said most of what I think. In my opinion: the new interface is bad and values don't add anything.
It's too bad as I'm sure this took a long time to develop, and that time would have been better spent on other features that have been requested for a long time!
fryant
Joined: 28-Feb-2016
Posts: 91
Quote: "numinis"
Quote: "fryant"
​​There must be a way to input the value of multiple grades in the same coin, for instance if I have a VF one that cost 2 euros and an UNC one that cost 5 euros, I should be able to input both. Maybe a grade selection drop down menu just to the left of the currency might work.
​ This is already implemented. For every year, you can add many coins with different grades, prices, and/or comments.
​​​

Quote: "fryant"
​​And finally, if I have 4 doubles of one given coin, how can I input that? Does the checkbox does automatically for me?
​​This is already implemented too. Click "add", then select a grade (not mandatory), select "for exchange" and click "save". Repeat this four times and you will have four coins on your swap list.
​Yeah, I know that in our current Numista they are, I meant in Sakrificed's proposal (@Jarcek). The UI he introduced didn't seem to take into account those factors.
ALLRED1950
Joined: 2-Jul-2012
Posts: 3797
Me I think we don't need all that info. I don't think all of us is going to have all five coin grades in our collection. One persons VF is another person F. And I like to keep things by K.I.S.S.. Keep it simple stupid. And what if you are just starting out and opened a new page. Would you know what to do? I think it would be better to make a page just for them. The values. Just like the page for swaps. That way if you want to look at are values you can. Me I think are values will have no meaning.
Go back to old one line with a comment box for just your collection, then a box for swap coins with a comment box after it. The comment box for your collection for your comment, got from, date, A or B position,etc..
Swap box can be for value and grade. Keep the page just for coins and another page for values.
I think it would make it easier to add coins and deal with your collection and swap coins.
AT THIS TIME IAM NO LONGER SWAPPING. I need too put things in order. And take some time off. Thank you yours daryl
Cerulean
Joined: 1-Nov-2010
Posts: 1346
I like the new capabilities, but dislike the interface. It takes a lot more scrolling and clicking.

Is there a reason this didn't go into a beta test before implementation?
ALLRED1950
Joined: 2-Jul-2012
Posts: 3797
You can have more detail on the values if on their own page. After each value you can have and arrow showing what the value is doing. Going up or down or staying the same. When the last value was added. You can set up the page to show what money is used, Pounds, Euros, Dollars, etc.. Just a hit with the mouse, so you can easy to see what value your swapper partly value is with out thinking.
AT THIS TIME IAM NO LONGER SWAPPING. I need too put things in order. And take some time off. Thank you yours daryl
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4372
Quote: "Cerulean"​I like the new capabilities, but dislike the interface. It takes a lot more scrolling and clicking.

​Is there a reason this didn't go into a beta test before implementation?
​It did, it was worse before.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Bohemia,Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.
ALLRED1950
Joined: 2-Jul-2012
Posts: 3797
If we are going to do values, we have to go all in. If they are on their own page. When you hit the value you can see the last 10 inputs and there dates. That way you can see if some one made a "mistake" - by put 100 and not 1.00 dollars for a US Dime. And would be easier to fix by removing it. And seeing the last 10 would make it look better and more up to date.
AT THIS TIME IAM NO LONGER SWAPPING. I need too put things in order. And take some time off. Thank you yours daryl
ALLRED1950
Joined: 2-Jul-2012
Posts: 3797
Sorry old fart and brain slow. But if values are on their own page at the bottom you could show your collection value and your swap coins value. On that page. Then you have a place to add ones whole collection value and their swap coins value. And show by silver value.
AT THIS TIME IAM NO LONGER SWAPPING. I need too put things in order. And take some time off. Thank you yours daryl
pnightingale
Joined: 27-Jul-2011
Posts: 4845
I've been busy with other things so I haven't had any real opportunity to try out the improvements yet. I'll reserve any detailed judgements until then, by which time many of the early teething problems will have been hopefully addressed.

However, a few early observations......

I'm not too concerned about the initial negative reactions, we had a similar outcry when the swap engine was revamped a couple of years ago. So much so that a one click button was installed so that users could return to the old version. Is anyone still using that old version?

The most apparent problem I see is that the information doesn't port over to the swap engine. I have several active swaps stalled because the information I need to complete them (in the comments field) isn't there any more. It seems that I'm going to have to open a new tab for each individual coin and write the price / grade on a sheet of paper and then total it. I was expecting values, both mine and the Numista generated ones, to be neatly displayed on the swap page with neat totals at the foot of the column, rather like we have for the combined weight. Is this going to be added at some point? It was the single most useful feature for me and I'm disappointed to not see it.

With regard to values, I think this is where the real benefit will be. It's actually a stoke of genius by Dear Leader. I'm fairly certain that most people are going to use Krause when they enter a value. The price paid is pretty meaningless, I've found plenty of $100 coins for a dollar or less and I'm sure many of you have too, that doesn't turn it into a $1 coin. So what will happen? Because of the way the value is calculated, ignoring the highs and lows we will end up with something very, very close to the current K&M value for each coin. For Numista to simply import info. directly from K&M would open up a real can of legal whoop ass. However by inviting several thousand users to input a value for their coins you will get all the goodies from the NGC/Krause database without getting the pants sued off you. Either by accident or design, it's simply an act of pure genius.
Non illegitimis carborundum est (don't let the bastards wear you down). Excellent advice for all coins.
Supreme Ruler and Dictator for Life of the 6th Avenue Coin, Stamp  & Rice Puller Club. President, Boss & Top Dawg for Hutt River.
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Hello,
For those who prefer the previous interface, you may go to your account settings and choose the second option for "Display of my collection".
The old version is available for the coin pages, display of your coins and fast input in search results. The rest will come soon.
Essor Prof
Joined: 13-Apr-2015
Posts: 1654
Quote: "Xavier"​Hello,
​For those who prefer the previous interface, you may go to your account settings and choose the second option for "Display of my collection".
​The old version is available for the coin pages, display of your coins and fast input in search results. The rest will come soon.
​Thank you so much Xavier, I can finally use Numista again. And it wasn't too soon, I almost lost all joy and interest in Numista, including being a referee and contributing to our catalogue. The new version is totally unacceptable for me, but now I can move on again.
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 1807
Hi,

I've done just that, back to where Numista was what I needed! The values I really don't believe in, just like the NRI by the way....

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/
Palinka83
Joined: 22-Dec-2013
Posts: 57
I'm glad you could add the old layout back that quickly.
Unfortunately the issue I mentioned earlier today now seems to spread/copy over into the old layout.
The number of coins shows correctly in the general overview but if I go into the coins details the coins I have and the ones I put onto the swap list are being added up (instead of one coin which is for swap the system still seems to count one coin and another one for swap):
Zaytsev Ilya
Joined: 13-Nov-2015
Posts: 4
Quote: "Xavier"​Hello,
​For those who prefer the previous interface, you may go to your account settings and choose the second option for "Display of my collection".
​The old version is available for the coin pages, display of your coins and fast input in search results. The rest will come soon.
​Hello, Xavier! Can you return old version in the swap-monitor too? It was so easy to add coins after swap. But now it's so difficult.
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 4372
Answer is there: "The rest will come soon."
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Bohemia,Czechoslovakia and Czech Republic.
gaubien
Joined: 20-Mar-2013
Posts: 10
I prefer the previous features. The reason is, thousands of my private comments for the coins now disappear! I enter them for my own purposes of getting the coins (perhaps these went away because I do not mark the coins I haven't collected).

Further, now I have to move thousands of my own comments from public to private :)

regards,
GB
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 2127
If I would go back to the old version just to be able to easily add coins to my collection, would the values I've entered still be there when I switch back, or will it go back to a default setting?
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17
pejounet Numista team, Moderator
Joined: 30-Jan-2017
Posts: 1281
Quote: "ngdawa"If I would go back to the old version just to be able to easily add coins to my collection, would the values I've entered still be there when I switch back, or will it go back to a default setting?
Values and comments will be there. Just tried and it worked.
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 2127
Quote: "pejounet"
Quote: "ngdawa"If I would go back to the old version just to be able to easily add coins to my collection, would the values I've entered still be there when I switch back, or will it go back to a default setting?
​Values and comments will be there. Just tried and it worked.
​OK, cheers! I just didn't wanted to try just in case it all would disappear. :`
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17
Xavier Site admin
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 3286
Quote: "ngdawa"If I would go back to the old version just to be able to easily add coins to my collection, would the values I've entered still be there when I switch back, or will it go back to a default setting?
​I still would be careful with that. If you don't touch your collection, comments and values will stay.
If you edit your collection with the old version, some comments and values may be affected:
  • If you have different comments for each coin of the given and you edit the comment with the old version, with only one comment per year/mint, the the comments for all your coins will be overwritten by that one.
  • If you had a value or a comment for a coin and you edit the quantity, they may be lost if you first delete the quantity before writing the new quantity. Removing the quantity will delete the coin with the comment and value. When you enter the new quantity, new coins are added to your collection, but without a value or comment.
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 2127
Quote: "Xavier"
Quote: "ngdawa"If I would go back to the old version just to be able to easily add coins to my collection, would the values I've entered still be there when I switch back, or will it go back to a default setting?
​​I still would be careful with that. If you don't touch your collection, comments and values will stay.
​If you edit your collection with the old version, some comments and values may be affected:

  • If you have different comments for each coin of the given and you edit the comment with the old version, with only one comment per year/mint, the the comments for all your coins will be overwritten by that one.

  • If you had a value or a comment for a coin and you edit the quantity, they may be lost if you first delete the quantity before writing the new quantity. Removing the quantity will delete the coin with the comment and value. When you enter the new quantity, new coins are added to your collection, but without a value or comment.​
​Cheers or your reply, mate!
What I meant was simply to add new coins to my collection, since the new version unfortunately is too inconvenient. I see in one way why the whole layout had to change, but I hope that this is just a middle stage and that later on the old version will return, but the value section stays.
Thanks!
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17
Cyrillius Numista team
Joined: 5-Jun-2013
Posts: 1094
Quote: "Xavier"​Hello,
​For those who prefer the previous interface, you may go to your account settings and choose the second option for "Display of my collection".
​The old version is available for the coin pages, display of your coins and fast input in search results. The rest will come soon.
​Hello!
God, thank you Xavier, you heard us!
kommodore
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 2725
Quote: "Essor Prof"
Quote: "mitino"​​​I have now looked at coins of Japan.
​​Only the Japanese dates and hieroglyphs.
​​It is awful.
​​And similar inconveniences, I am sure, still will be much.
​​For what there was everything to break?
​​Was to add a window with the comment and a window with the coin buying price enough (if it is interesting to someone).

​​Oh oh oh, the more I found out, the worse it get. I just checked Japan too and it's just awful. Only regnal years anymore, no more Christian dates. The same for Arabic countries.

​I see so many disadvantages in the new version and NONE advantage.

​Disadvantages:
​- Horrible interface. Don't tell me anyone really likes the new interface with the abundant icons and abundant extra lines?
​- Much more difficult to add your coins: much more clicking, much more time needed, coins for your collection and your swap list must be added separately, ....
​- Endless scrolling to the pages because of all those extra lines.
​- No more Christian dates for countries using another script (Japan, Arabic countries, Thailand, ...)

​And what are the supposedly advantages?
​- Values? An average calculated value. For one part the value is too high, for the other part the value is too low.
​- Personal comment. We already had a comment box.

​These little advantages really aren't in proportion to the big disadvantages.




Exactly,
The values should be based on KM values, i'd say that would be more useful.
And the lines should've been extended horizontally not vertically.​
Fabriziodg91
Joined: 29-Nov-2012
Posts: 1
Why I cannot see anymore mintage of my coins with the new system? I can only see the mintages clicking on the coin page, not on “my coins”. If relevant, I do use iOS 11.2.6 on iPhone.
andrewdotcoza
Joined: 29-Sep-2013
Posts: 109
Quote: "Xavier"​Hello,
​For those who prefer the previous interface, you may go to your account settings and choose the second option for "Display of my collection".
​The old version is available for the coin pages, display of your coins and fast input in search results. The rest will come soon.
​Thank you, Xavier! I’ve just switched over to the proper Numista and breathed a huge sigh of relief. Thank you, also, for listening to us when we told you what we needed.

For future big changes, can we perhaps canvass the larger Numista community before rolling them out? This would have the advantage of you getting feedback before you committed time to major changes.
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 2127
Quote: "andrewdotcoza"​​For future big changes, can we perhaps canvass the larger Numista community before rolling them out? This would have the advantage of you getting feedback before you committed time to major changes.
​There was a thread about this started in 2015. 94 people voted for. That's the highest number I've ever seen participating in a voting here on Numista.
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17
andrewdotcoza
Joined: 29-Sep-2013
Posts: 109
Quote: "ngdawa"
Quote: "andrewdotcoza"​​For future big changes, can we perhaps canvass the larger Numista community before rolling them out? This would have the advantage of you getting feedback before you committed time to major changes.
​​There was a thread about this started in 2015. 94 people voted for. That's the highest number I've ever seen participating in a voting here on Numista.
​Well, clearly having a forum thread isn’t enough for this kind of thing. The UI changes have been widely rejected by the Numista community and serious questions hang over the values feature. Having 94 positive votes is all good and well but, looking at the top of this thread, I can’t see any way to vote against something. So none of that really reflects a proper canvassing of what people on Numista actually want.
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 2127
Quote: "andrewdotcoza"Having 94 positive votes is all good and well but, looking at the top of this thread, I can’t see any way to vote against something. So none of that really reflects a proper canvassing of what people on Numista actually want.
​That is a very good point. There should also be a "I don't like this" choice when making a suggestion to improve Numista.

Also, people don't always respond in the forum, but when changes are made people say their opinions but then it's too late.
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17
emilu2
Joined: 31-Mar-2012
Posts: 129
what kind of condition need for users on numista to writte value of coins , i think people may manipulate with prices to overvalue or down price for coin.
i take simple look on that.
coins who is natural to find on own place where they find before in circulation is cheap for people who live on that place.
for exampling, i buying lots of 5 dinara 1879 or 1904 25 grams silver for funny prices, and that price is real for someone who live in Usa for exampling?
i think is not good idea writing value (fake or true prices) of coins in description of coin.
i prefer to use old style.
rock n roll stop the traffic
http://stores.ebay.com/uemkartcollectibles
Cerulean
Joined: 1-Nov-2010
Posts: 1346
Is it possible to remove a grade selection from a coin, to set it back to "no grade"?
mitkosr
Joined: 15-Sep-2012
Posts: 39
I think that NUMISTA slowly but surely turns into coins market and that is not good at all for the real hobby collectors .
Cyrillius Numista team
Joined: 5-Jun-2013
Posts: 1094
I wonder how the new member will choose the interface for himself? Or will the new interface be the default for new members?
(I'm betting that the old interface attracted more new members).
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 198
New members should be defaulted to the simple interface and have the option to switch to the complicated one later if they wish.

I have started to update my coins using the new interface and think it will be good for the people who like to keep detailed records of their collections and swaps.

Cheers Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
michsignman
Joined: 1-Sep-2017
Posts: 16
Wow, as I begin to read this thread in the forum.... I realize I have missed much this last 10 days. Upon reading what the change was, I thought I have already been typing in the comments/variations area for all my duplicates. I had them kinda broken down "1VG, 1F, 2UNC Available" for my own knowledge, as well as others.
I often want to keep 3 of various coins, yet trade any after 3. (one for each son also) I really wasn't sure if I should/could type "Free / Army" or "Ebay $17.75 Shipping $2.75" next to my pfennigs or drachmas. I was waiting to hear someone say "don't put 1VG, 1F, 2UNC Available" next to your coins, its normally used for variations and defects only.
Did I see a private comment area mentioned? So I can put "Soaked in Lacquer Thinner" or "stolen from the museum in Paris"... lol
I LOVE NUMISTA! (Only the invention of the wheel compares)
I have shared Numista with my facebook friends. My older friends are quite shocked to see how easy it is to remove their coins from their 40 year storage box enter them. Even if they don't have a large collection, I seem to have put a bug in quite a few minds. they still want to get them out and look at dates, and mintage numbers. The same with the girls at my bank. I'm in a small town, so I know many people on the streets I pass. They ask about "That coin collection thing you posted on Facebook".
I can see coin value addition being nice for trading (I haven't yet, still entering coins), depending on the accurately. It's like a 3rd person giving his input/opinion, except that opinion is totally neutral and mute.
Well, time to catch up and read I guess. :)
zenja_p
Joined: 12-May-2012
Posts: 4
Quote: "Cyrillius"​I lacked only two things: personal comments and cost. I thought this could be also simple and understandable, for example:

I like this version. Better than new Numista anyway.​
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 2127
Quote: "zenja_p"
Quote: "Cyrillius"​I lacked only two things: personal comments and cost. I thought this could be also simple and understandable, for example:
​​
​​
​I like this version. Better than new Numista anyway.​
​That is very close to what I've been thinking. I've been saying that I'm hoping that this new version of Numista is just a middle stage to try out the value feature, and then later on the old and new version will merge together - old layout but with value.
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17
pejounet Numista team, Moderator
Joined: 30-Jan-2017
Posts: 1281
Quote: "Cyrillius"​I lacked only two things: personal comments and cost. I thought this could be also simple and understandable, for example:

Such case assumes value for one grade only (and mixed comments i.e. comments for all coins into one single line), or you're suggesting adding other boxes at right for each grade?
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 2127
Quote: "pejounet"
Quote: "Cyrillius"​I lacked only two things: personal comments and cost. I thought this could be also simple and understandable, for example:
​​
​​
​Such case assumes value for one grade only (and mixed comments i.e. comments for all coins into one single line), or you're suggesting adding other boxes at right for each grade?
​​as it is now the value is per grade as well, so how is this diferent?
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17
Sakrificed
Joined: 9-Jan-2015
Posts: 96
Quote: "fryant"
Quote: "Sakrificed"​Please let me use your picture to explain my ideas
​​
​​This is my idea abot upgradable fast input
​​
​​
​​I like the idea of having values in Numista, but I agree with the opinion that the UI needs a bit of work. Sakrificed's idea is a good approach, I think, however, it still needs a bit of work as well.

​There must be a way to input the value of multiple grades in the same coin, for instance if I have a VF one that cost 2 euros and an UNC one that cost 5 euros, I should be able to input both. Maybe a grade selection drop down menu just to the left of the currency might work.

​Also, with that layout we cannot see the overall values. Maybe to the right of the value input box, there can be an icon (like an arrow or something like that) that, when you click on it, the overall values for the year and the grade can appear, and if you click on it again, they hide.

​And finally, if I have 4 doubles of one given coin, how can I input that? Does the checkbox does automatically for me?
​There a button to add one line.
In your case just add two lines, one for VF and one for UNC.

You can even separate VF+ and VF- by adding two lines, write the prices and comments for each line.

There are still have space to display price on PC screen, and they should be separated from the fast input.
In mobile version there could be a 'toggle' button freezed on the top of screen, to toggle between price and fast input.
Catalog editor for Thailand and Japan.
Contact me via facebook if you want to swap/buy. See my profile.
SteveV
Joined: 4-Mar-2012
Posts: 81
Ok, I have nearly 40K coins on the site, and I've tried to cope with the new format.

Here's my problem, all my coins are available for swap, but when I add coins, they aren't registering in the total number of my collection, only in the available for swap total.

In other words, on the "My Collection" page, my first box "Coins" total always matched my "Coins to swap" total ... now the "Coins to swap" total grows, but the "Coins" total number doesn't increase simultaneously .....

So, I guess I'm asking is this some bug in the new formatting system or am I doing something wrong?
-Just a taxpaying serf in Amerika
pejounet Numista team, Moderator
Joined: 30-Jan-2017
Posts: 1281
Quote: "ngdawa"
Quote: "pejounet"

Quote: "Cyrillius"​I lacked only two things: personal comments and cost. I thought this could be also simple and understandable, for example:
​​​
​​​
​​Such case assumes value for one grade only (and mixed comments i.e. comments for all coins into one single line), or you're suggesting adding other boxes at right for each grade?
​​​as it is now the value is per grade as well, so how is this diferent?
​Not sure I get your point.
- Old system: no values.
- New system: each single coin can have its own value AND each grade displays a "general" value (i.e. the calculation with "all members" values, auctions, etc.).

In the picture above, the value cell at right is fine if we only have 1 coin (whatever grade it is). Let's assume we have 3 coins (VG, VF and UNC), this single value cell doesn't work anymore. My question is related to this point: are you suggesting adding value cells for each grade?
i.e. instead of having values below with new system, having values at right.
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 1807
Hi,

in my collection I only register ONE single coin for one given year / mint mark & variant = the best grade I have for that coin.

In my doubles I might register coins to exchange from grade vg to unc for the same year / mint mark and variant!

So in my simple opinion you have to separate COLLECTION from DOUBLES, no?

NOW people collecting by type have other needs since they don't care about the year, the mint mark and the possible variants. How are those differences foreseen in the new version?

Just my 5 yen to this discussion

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
http://monnaiesetvarietes.esy.es/
szmata
Joined: 12-Jan-2010
Posts: 5661
Hello everybody

Whqt you can do to solve your various problems....is to keep the « old » system.

it is possible to choose it in your “ settings ».

The only problem is that your coins will not be evaluated....by 4 or 5 collectors who can say what they want and who anyway are not specialists
Je ne collectionne que les euros, et notamment les commémoratives
Eerovisser
Joined: 12-Sep-2014
Posts: 380
This system forces me to actually grade all my coins if I wanted to add values. I just always put most my coin under F since I don't really know how to grade my coins. Because if my coin is really XF and I put the value under F that would mess everything up.
Cerulean
Joined: 1-Nov-2010
Posts: 1346
Quote: "Eerovisser"​This system forces me to actually grade all my coins if I wanted to add values. I just always put most my coin under F since I don't really know how to grade my coins. Because if my coin is really XF and I put the value under F that would mess everything up.
​Me too, except I use VG by default.
davidhs
Joined: 7-Jan-2013
Posts: 62
Quote: "Cerulean"
Quote: "Eerovisser"​This system forces me to actually grade all my coins if I wanted to add values. I just always put most my coin under F since I don't really know how to grade my coins. Because if my coin is really XF and I put the value under F that would mess everything up.
​​Me too, except I use VG by default.
​Me too.

-------------

Like some people in this topic, I like new data but old interface was better (easier and faster).

I created a suggestion for merge both systems (new data with old interface):
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic67534.html
Wanted & swap list (euro coins & world coins and banknotes circulated) https://goo.gl/byQU8J - I have euro & world CC coins for swap.
Zaytsev Ilya
Joined: 13-Nov-2015
Posts: 4
In the new swap-monitor, I cannot quickly recover coins in the swap-list if the exchange has been canceled. Can I restore the ability to use the old version of the swap-monitor?
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 198
Quote: "SteveV"​Ok, I have nearly 40K coins on the site, and I've tried to cope with the new format.

​Here's my problem, all my coins are available for swap, but when I add coins, they aren't registering in the total number of my collection, only in the available for swap total.

​In other words, on the "My Collection" page, my first box "Coins" total always matched my "Coins to swap" total ... now the "Coins to swap" total grows, but the "Coins" total number doesn't increase simultaneously .....

​So, I guess I'm asking is this some bug in the new formatting system or am I doing something wrong?
​Its not a bug ... If all your coins are available for swap and you list them that way they won't show as part of your "Collection".

To make them show in both "Collection" and "Swaps" you would need to list them twice. So if you had a 2015 British penny for instance, you would list it as a collected coin and as a swap coin.

In the old Numista that was the way I used to list my swaps, but now I have changed to showing a swap coin as only a "Swap" coin. It is not in my collection because I want to get rid of it.

My collection used to number 6400 or so but now it only numbers 5500. That's because I had around 900 coins from countries that I do not collect, listed as part of my "Collection" and also listed as "Swaps". Now they are only listed as swaps.

Hope this helps. - Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
robertcronje1
Joined: 13-Apr-2016
Posts: 44
Hi All,

Just to clarify the values for myself, I've registered reflecting I'm from South Africa. Is the values I see when logged into my profile in South African Rand (ZAR) or Dollar?

Thank you,

Robert Cronje
pejounet Numista team, Moderator
Joined: 30-Jan-2017
Posts: 1281
Hi Robert,
values are expressed given the currency you select on your profile page. If you selected ZAR, then values are expressed in ZAR.
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
el182592
Joined: 20-Feb-2013
Posts: 151
Xavier,

As I mentioned in another post.

Two things :

-1-Why no currency-sign before the values.
-2-Text between <...> will not be displayed.
With regards.
Bert.
Netherlands.
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 2127
Quote: "el182592"​Xavier,

​As I mentioned in another post.

​Two things :

​-1-Why no currency-sign before the values.
​-2-Text between <...> will not be displayed.

​there's not really a need for any currency signs, since you already have selected a currency you'll know what currency it is. and all currencies don't have a sign like €, £, ¥, ₩, ₸, ₽, ₪, or $.
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17

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