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The 'Collect each Monarch of England' collection quest

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oggy Moderator
Joined: 8-Mar-2016
Posts: 1587
Has anybody else attempted to build this collection? Looking over my coins, I'm thought I was doing quite well, but have a way to go... Also not everybody seems attainable.

If you're doing so, where are you starting?

Edward V is obviously impossible for us mere plebs, but are any others impossible? Henry IV perhaps?

So far I have:

Offa
Edward the Black Prince
Aethelred II
Cnut
Harald
Edward I
Henry VIII
Charles I to Elizabeth II
CassTaylor
Joined: 30-May-2014
Posts: 8551
Hey, this was actually the first thing I remember deliberately doing with my collection! :wiz:

Medievals are out of both my interest and price range, (more the latter to be honest), but I do have a sixpence of Elizabeth I , and then every monarch from Charles II onwards (if you count Exonumia/Tokens, or the West Africa, East Africa or New Guinea issues for Edward VIII).

Used to be fun as hell to line them up and see how the direction in which the busts faced alternated, a tradition going back to Charles II. Is it hard to find coins of pre-Tudor monarchs?
oggy Moderator
Joined: 8-Mar-2016
Posts: 1587
Mary isn't easy. The most practical is the groat or the Angel if you want a portrait version, or the 22 shillings if you want a Scottish one. There are ryals/sovereigns and fine sovereigns too. but those are out of the price range of most mortals. I've decided against a groat and am looking for an Angel, but I don't expect to get one for several years.

Jane Grey is impossible (unless you go for an Emery forgery).

Pre Tudor - Most are easier, a few are nigh impossible.
alfonz
Joined: 19-Jan-2013
Posts: 755
Iam on that quest too ;) .
But due to my low budget Iam struggling to get a William IV coin right now. Also I dont have any Tudor for now and really would like to own a farthing of Mary&William III, Anne and George I. Just out of interest for the future I wanna ask: What did you pay for an ok conditioned farthing of Anne or George I ?
CassTaylor
Joined: 30-May-2014
Posts: 8551
Quote: "alfonz"​Iam on that quest too ;) .
​But due to my low budget Iam struggling to get a William IV coin right now. Also I dont have any Tudor for now and really would like to own a farthing of Mary&William III, Anne and George I. Just out of interest for the future I wanna ask: What did you pay for an ok conditioned farthing of Anne or George I ?
​Forget about getting a farthing of Anne, those are practically considered patterns. Get the sixpence or shilling, the cheapest Anne denominations.

For a farthing of George I I paid a little under £20 for the one below, if you can call it OK condition. Maybe it's a matter of location, but William IV coins are actually pretty common; I'm sure you could get a copper or small silver in so-so condition for only a few euros, or from a little swap with a UK member.

alfonz
Joined: 19-Jan-2013
Posts: 755
William IV coins are really not expensive but I missed many nice auctions and dont want to bid on one where the seller wants 5-100 € for the shipping (I have seen it cheaper even from UK so its possible!)
oggy Moderator
Joined: 8-Mar-2016
Posts: 1587
Quote: "alfonz"​Iam on that quest too ;) .
​But due to my low budget Iam struggling to get a William IV coin right now. Also I dont have any Tudor for now and really would like to own a farthing of Mary&William III, Anne and George I. Just out of interest for the future I wanna ask: What did you pay for an ok conditioned farthing of Anne or George I ?
​Charles II, a farthing. You won't get anything fine+ for under £100 or so, but should be easy enough if you wait to pick up something in Fair-Good for £10-20

James II is a pain. I'd probably go for a crown.

William & Mary I would go for a nice sixpence.

William sole rule, another sixpence probably.

For Anne I would get a 1707 or 1707E halfcrown. Won't break the bank, and should be able to pick one up for under £100 in VF~ if you are patient and diligent.

William IV should be easy enough, it's just patience I guess to find the right fit for you.

George I, a half Guinea may be what you're looking for. Maybe an ex mounted one.
alfonz
Joined: 19-Jan-2013
Posts: 755
Ty for the suggestions, I will keep my eyes open ;) .
But due to the fact that I collect all Monarchs from around the world England/UK are not on 100% priority :) .
cmaclean
Joined: 12-Oct-2014
Posts: 402
I aim to eventually try and get at least one coin of every monarch of Great Britain, England and Scotland.

So far I have at least one example of each post-1707 monarch (including Edward VIII if you count colonial issues).

I have at at least one of each English monarch between the reigns of Anne and Henry VII. With the exception of Mary and my Edward VI coin is in the name of Henry VIII. I have a single coin of Henry VI and at least one coin of every monarch from Edward III down to Henry I (excluding Richard II and Empress Matilda).


My Scottish collection begins at William II/III and is complete down to the reign of James III. I'm missing the first 2 James's but have Robert III down to Alexander III (with the exception of Robert I Bruce). My oldest Scottish coin is of William I the Lion, I don't have the means to get anything older at the moment.
Numista referee for Scotland.
cmaclean
Joined: 12-Oct-2014
Posts: 402
Quote: "oggy"​Mary isn't easy. The most practical is the groat or the Angel if you want a portrait version, or the 22 shillings if you want a Scottish one. There are ryals/sovereigns and fine sovereigns too. but those are out of the price range of most mortals. I've decided against a groat and am looking for an Angel, but I don't expect to get one for several years.

​there aren't any Scottish coins of Mary Tudor. Your thinking of the Mary Queen of Scots' 22 shillings. If it's the Scottish Mary that interests you then your cheapest bet would be her billon hardheads. A fairly decent base silver bawbee can often be found for about £100. It certainly has a lot more eye appeal.
Numista referee for Scotland.
oggy Moderator
Joined: 8-Mar-2016
Posts: 1587
Quote: "cmaclean"
Quote: "oggy"​Mary isn't easy. The most practical is the groat or the Angel if you want a portrait version, or the 22 shillings if you want a Scottish one. There are ryals/sovereigns and fine sovereigns too. but those are out of the price range of most mortals. I've decided against a groat and am looking for an Angel, but I don't expect to get one for several years.

​​there aren't any Scottish coins of Mary Tudor. Your thinking of the Mary Queen of Scots' 22 shillings. If it's the Scottish Mary that interests you then your cheapest bet would be her billon hardheads. A fairly decent base silver bawbee can often be found for about £100. It certainly has a lot more eye appeal.

Yep I meant bloody mary. I'm 'trying' to stick to portraits, hence the Angel choice. My halfcrown collection has helped me hugely to start [I'd never get a portrait Commonwealth/Cromwell elsewhere]
oggy Moderator
Joined: 8-Mar-2016
Posts: 1587
Quote: "cmaclean"​I aim to eventually try and get at least one coin of every monarch of Great Britain, England and Scotland.

​So far I have at least one example of each post-1707 monarch (including Edward VIII if you count colonial issues).

​I have at at least one of each English monarch between the reigns of Anne and Henry VII. With the exception of Mary and my Edward VI coin is in the name of Henry VIII. I have a single coin of Henry VI and at least one coin of every monarch from Edward III down to Henry I (excluding Richard II and Empress Matilda).


​My Scottish collection begins at William II/III and is complete down to the reign of James III. I'm missing the first 2 James's but have Robert III down to Alexander III (with the exception of Robert I Bruce). My oldest Scottish coin is of William I the Lion, I don't have the means to get anything older at the moment.

Nice. I've heard Alexander is almost impossible to get in the Scottish collection!

Which Richard and Oliver Cromwell do you have? I'm assuming you're discounting Jane Grey? What are your plans for Mary?
cmaclean
Joined: 12-Oct-2014
Posts: 402
Quote: "oggy"
Quote
​​
​Nice. I've heard Alexander is almost impossible to get in the Scottish collection!

​Which Richard and Oliver Cromwell do you have? I'm assuming you're discounting Jane Grey? What are your plans for Mary?
​Alexander III is fairly easy to get a hold of, especially his 2nd coinage. They are by far the most common medieval Scottish coin out there. In relation to contemporary English coin they are a small minority, even in Scotland. Alexander's 2nd coinage only accounts for about 3% of the make-up of Scottish hoards from around 1300. Just as well Scottish numismatics is a niche field as most coins would be well out of the reach of most collectors if they got anywhere near the attention England or Britain gets.


Alexander II is a different story. His coins are very rare and even the cut fractions command high prices. I do have a couple of cut halfpennies that are possibly of Alexander II but there isn't enough detail to distinguish him. Going on pure chances of survival it is much more likely that they are of William I.

I didn't think of the Cromwells when I made my first post. I don't have any coins of the Commonwealth but they are certainly on my list. Anything from Richard's era or the portrait issues are well out of my price range, but I'll probably get a commonwealth 6d to halfpenny at some point in the future.

I haven't given much thought to Mary. Her groats, either her joint or sole rule, seem like what I'd go for if I ever get around to buying one.

I wasn't even aware that Jane struck coins. I had a quick Google and all I came across were much later forgeries.
Numista referee for Scotland.
oggy Moderator
Joined: 8-Mar-2016
Posts: 1587
Yep, it's those Alexander II coins that are a big stumbling block. My mum is Scottish, so I briefly looked into it.

The problem with the Commonwealth non portrait coins, is they just aren't particularly attractive. I guess you could pick up a nice one and just leave it at that for the future.

I thought about the Mary groats - they are certainly the most obtainable. However they seem hugely overpriced compared to their availability, around £500 for a decent condition one in VF. That's why I thought about getting the angel instead. Far rarer and much better value at £2000~. It's something to think about for the future.

Jane 'possibly' struck coins. I was reading an article the other day about the Emery mint forgeries which is an interesting read in itself, but have not seen anything about real ones. That said, nobody thought that Edward V coins existed until an almost perfect Angel was found in a field a few years ago, so it's certainly possible that one survived and is either undiscovered or in private hands. Way beyond the realm of the likes of us though. Usually if forgeries exist, at one time there will have been evidence of an original.
January First-of-May
Joined: 10-Apr-2016
Posts: 738
I'll have to check, but I believe I have at least one coin of each English/British monarch from William III to Elizabeth II except Anne (though of course my Edward VIII is colonial).
Nothing earlier (yet), however; nor do I have any Scottish coins (again, yet).

Checking... apparently I have (according to Numista) farthings of William III, George I, George IV, William IV, George V, and George VI, halfpennies of George II, George III, Victoria, Edward VII, and George V, and (copper or bronze) pennies of George III, George IV, William IV, Victoria, Edward VII, George V, George VI, and Elizabeth II.

Silver is trickier; I have examples of William III (not entered yet), George IV, William IV, Victoria, Edward VII, George V, and George VI (and colonial [Canada, specifically] for Elizabeth II; of course the Kutch silvers of Edward VIII are way out of my budget).
Hoping to find some 18th century British silver coins eventually.
CassTaylor
Joined: 30-May-2014
Posts: 8551
Quote: "oggy"
Quote: "alfonz"​Iam on that quest too ;) .
​​But due to my low budget Iam struggling to get a William IV coin right now. Also I dont have any Tudor for now and really would like to own a farthing of Mary&William III, Anne and George I. Just out of interest for the future I wanna ask: What did you pay for an ok conditioned farthing of Anne or George I ?

​William & Mary I would go for a nice sixpence.

​William sole rule, another sixpence probably.

​George I, a half Guinea may be what you're looking for. Maybe an ex mounted one.

​@alfonz
In case you're on the same sort as budget as I was (still am, actually), and silver & gold are out of your reach; there are some less costly coppers you might want to consider to complete this quest:

For William and Mary, a copper farthing in a low grade can be junk bin stuff; I got mine for £1.

For WIlliam III, a halfpenny in OK condition shouldn't be more than single digits euro. Otherwise, his sixpences and shillings are also ok.

For Anne you can just get a sixpence or shilling; either in F should be around £15.

For George I the cheapest coins are the farthing and halfpenny, but for a silver the 1723 shilling is the most common type, around £30 for a worn one.
cmaclean
Joined: 12-Oct-2014
Posts: 402
Quote: "oggy"​Yep, it's those Alexander II coins that are a big stumbling block. My mum is Scottish, so I briefly looked into it.

​The problem with the Commonwealth non portrait coins, is they just aren't particularly attractive. I guess you could pick up a nice one and just leave it at that for the future.

​I thought about the Mary groats - they are certainly the most obtainable. However they seem hugely overpriced compared to their availability, around £500 for a decent condition one in VF. That's why I thought about getting the angel instead. Far rarer and much better value at £2000~. It's something to think about for the future.

​Jane 'possibly' struck coins. I was reading an article the other day about the Emery mint forgeries which is an interesting read in itself, but have not seen anything about real ones. That said, nobody thought that Edward V coins existed until an almost perfect Angel was found in a field a few years ago, so it's certainly possible that one survived and is either undiscovered or in private hands. Way beyond the realm of the likes of us though. Usually if forgeries exist, at one time there will have been evidence of an original.
​Alexander II is comparatively easy to get when compared to David I and Malcolm IV. Even with a considerable budget at hand you would still struggle to get a coin of Malcolm IV. Only a handful of specimens survive and most are in museums.


I agree that the Commonwealth coins are fairly plain but their sheer novelty has always been a draw for me. They are just so odd when compared everything that came before or went after them. On top of that it would be incredible to own a relic of Britain's short-lived republican experiment.

The sheer cost of Mary coins puts me off them. I've never spent £500 on a coin and if I was to then it would probably be on something Scottish.

That Emery article looks interesting. I'm currently working from a 4G connection right now but I will definitely give it a read when I get a more stable internet connection. It's not unknown for coins to fall in and out of public knowledge. Take the Henry VII sovereign groat as an example. It was known to 18th century numismatists but was forgotten until the 1940s. Even today few people know it exists. I only came across it completely by chance. I don't see why something similar couldn't have happened with a Jane coin.
Numista referee for Scotland.
Moneytane
Joined: 28-Jan-2014
Posts: 583
I intend to get at least one half crown of each reign from Henry VIII (When the denomination was introduced) until the end of them in 1970.

So far in a few months I have

Charles I -gFine cost me $160
Charles II - g Fine cost me $375
Anne - VG cost me $85
George II - VG cost me $80
George IV - Two gFine/VF coins cost me $65 and $99
William IV - Fair - $11, VG - $36
Victoria - 1845 VG $40, 1893 VF - $60
George V - 1915 gVF - $20, 1929 EF -$30
George VI - Mostly $5 for silver, less than $1 for cupronickel
Elizabeth II - Under $1 each, but $15 UNC set of 1953 had one and 1967 UNC cost me 50c

Also half crown coins of
New Zealand
South Africa
Ireland
Boer

The clanger is the coins have to be at least good up to George II, Fine from George III (Only Halfcrowns for him from the Steam period of 1816 onwards)
VF from Edward onwards.
I love coins, both old and precious and also change coins. If its round and shiny, it will garner my interest. I also collect stamps and have an abiding interest in History, Archaeology,  and Social Issues.  I also worship the musical god Prince.
HongKongCoinCollector
Joined: 27-Feb-2019
Posts: 122
Me and my friend are doing this one on-and-off casually, and I don't think we'll get some of the impossible monarchs anytime soon (Lady Jane Grey and Edward VIII come to mind). I'm trying to keep it to UK/English coins only and not get anything from the Empire or the Commonwealth, but Ed VIII would probably be impossible this way. Idk.

He managed to snatch a George I halfpence for 25 HKD while I was next to him. I still kick myself for not snatching it first. :snif: (FYI- 25 HKD is a bit more than 3 USD)
Often things turn up in unexpected places.
Keep looking! ;-)
Moneytane
Joined: 28-Jan-2014
Posts: 583
Quote: "oggy"
​Pre Tudor - Most are easier, a few are nigh impossible.
​Depends on your standards. I find pre Tudor very hard. Not so much for cost but type.

Up to Edward I and including Edward II you are completely limted to pennies. Sixpences and half crowns are all very much 16th century inventions.

The UK was way behind the 8ball with coins and did not introduce a coin larger than a penny until the mid 13th century (Some halfpence and farthings - but rare and often pennies were carved up to make these. The cross made a good cutline).

The first gold penny came out in 1244 and was a flop as it was too light.

Edward I introduced a groat in around 1279, but this coin was also a flop and super rare.

Coins before Henry VII used weird medieval witchie poo lettering in Latin or French and its hard to read - often the name of the old king still appeared a new kings coins (I say king as there were no women until the 1550s on them). It did not help the same generic portrait of a king - a man witha crown facing you until 1279 and then a new one with a flow of 1960s big hair from 1279 well into Henry VII's era appeared on all silver.

Edward III introduced a silver groat and halfgroat coinage around 1350 and the Gold noble coinage in 1348 (A noble was 80 silver pence or 20 groats) and these coins came with the half and quarter. However medieval gold is really really expensive. The penny was still the main coin well into the 16th century. Most people were unbelievably poor and pennies was all most saw, groats were for the middle class and only the elite used nobles.

Even worse was coins were not dated until very late in the UK compared to other countries in Europe. Coins were dated with a series of mintmarks from 1330 through to 1665 in some case, and some mintmarks lasted several years, others a shorter period.

The first dated pieces came in 1548, however there was only sporadic dating on coins until the milled coinage of Charles II in the 1660s.

Henry VII was a big reformer and introduced a gold sovereign in 1489 worth a whole pound (240 pence) - The Ryal had already been added in the 1470s by edward iv (10 shillings). More importantly a new renaissance style portrait of the king was added around 1502 and in 1504 he introduced a silver testern (Shilling). This was a flop and more testerns only came in 1544 and these were base. We have to wait until Edward VI in 1551 before the Crown, Halfcrown, Shilling, Sixpence and Threepence became standard denominations.

Elizabeth's reign saw the most denominations with Fine sovereigns (30s), Pound Sovereigns (20s), their halves (15s and 10s), Gold crowns and halfcrowns (5/- and 2/6) and then silver crowns, Halfcrowns, shillings, 6d, 4d, 3d, 2d, 1d, ½d, ¼d and even 2 new coins a 1½d and a ¾d added as many merchants complained about people paying with pennies for a farthings stuff!

No copper was used until 1672, but tin farthings stared privately around 1610 and were sanctioned then. Also tradesmen issued copper fathings and halfpence between about 1655 and 1670, which were not legal - but widely used and now collectible (Just like 1780s/90s conders and 1810s tokens in all metals).

So for pre Tudor - I would honestly stick to pennies - some can be cheap (Edward I can cost as little as £10) and most saxon ones even under a £100. Yesterday I met a guy who had a complete run of every king from Alfred (And some earlier like Offa and Wulfred) to Elizabeth II except he was missing a coin of William I (1066 - 1087) and he knew was strange as Pax pennies are common and the new horde will bring more in.
I love coins, both old and precious and also change coins. If its round and shiny, it will garner my interest. I also collect stamps and have an abiding interest in History, Archaeology,  and Social Issues.  I also worship the musical god Prince.

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