New year on Colombian coin [solved]

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This message aims at: requesting the modification of a coin in the catalogue

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Yesterday I bought a coin not showing on our catalog, and today I started searching for it, and finally, on NGC price guide, I found it is KM# 161.1 (NGC Search).

I noticed they don't detail mint house (Bogota and Medellin), but we do.

On our catalog, is listed only Bogota mint on 1885 year, but not Medellin. As year list is marked as complete, I can't add it.

Please note the coin I bought (KM# 161), year 1885, Medellin mint, is exactly the one showing on coin image, so there is no need to send pictures of my coin.
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Catalog Referee Coins, Banknotes & Exonumia: Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Zamunda, Parva Domus and more.
KM#161.2 has the coins minted at Medellin, which does not list 1885 as being a date: https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/colombia-5-decimos-km-161.2-1880-1883-cuid-1038701-duid-1277826

With that being said, I am seeing no difference between Numista's image and the one NGC gives for KM#161.1 (Bogota mint). What exactly are you looking at to determine the mint?

(I can contact the referee for you, if you would like, but I just need to know a little more details. :`)
Quote: "Sulfur"​KM#161.2 has the coins minted at Medellin, which does not list 1885 as being a date: https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/colombia-5-decimos-km-161.2-1880-1883-cuid-1038701-duid-1277826

​With that being said, I am seeing no difference between Numista's image and the one NGC gives for KM#161.1 (Bogota mint). What exactly are you looking at to determine the mint?

​(I can contact the referee for you, if you would like, but I just need to know a little more details. :`)

​The coin at NGC is 1883, minted at Bogota, showing "BOGOTA" on bottom reverse, while the one at Numista (as well as my coin), is 1885 and shows "MEDELLIN" on bottom reverse. I bet that is enough to determine the mint.

Now it is obvious that it is missing a year line for 1885 minted at Medellin (is showing in picture, but not in years list).

But the issue is a bit more complicated, I looked the Krause SCWC and found as variants 161.1 & 161.2 (and some more); they describe 162.2 as variant being 8-pointed stars (and "different head", but does not explain what's different), so I guess being 7-pointed makes it 161.1 (where they don't say how much points stars have). Krause does not mention "BOGOTA" and "MEDELLIN"

On Numista catalog, I see all 161.1 are marked as minted at Bogota, and all 161.2 are marked as minted at Medellin. But on 1885 it is only showing 161.1, Bogota ("Medellin" is not present), and the picture showing on page is 1885 and Medellin.

So far, I think KM# 161.1 is the variant with 7-pointed stars, and 161.2 is 8-pointed stars, but Krause does not tell anything about minthouse. Maybe confusion came from the pictures showing on Krause, where KM# 161.1 shows Bogota and KM# 161.2 shows Medellin, maybe who added year lines thought that was the reason for variant number, but, as we all know, Krause does not make variants for different minthouses, and as much they add mint letter when is present, but does not change KM#.
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Catalog Referee Coins, Banknotes & Exonumia: Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Zamunda, Parva Domus and more.
Quote: "adanieluy"

​​The coin at NGC is 1883, minted at Bogota, showing "BOGOTA" on bottom reverse, while the one at Numista (as well as my coin), is 1885 and shows "MEDELLIN" on bottom reverse. I bet that is enough to determine the mint.


Oh yes, that is certainly enough! :D

I will contact the referee shortly, but the issue may be more than just adding a year-line.​ The coin on the NGC link of KM# 161.1 says "MEDELLIN", contrary to what Numista says. Now, NGC could just have the incorrect images, but here is a link I stumbled upon: http://www.coinfactswiki.com/wiki/Colombia_1885-M_5_decimos.

That link lists Medellin as being KM#161.1, which supports NGC's pictures. I am thinking that the comments on Numista may have been switched, so any date that says "KM#161.1 (Type 1 "Liberty" Head - Bogotá Mint)" should actually say "KM#161.1 (Type 1 "Liberty" Head - Medellin Mint)". And if that is the case, there may not be a need to add an additional year, but rather edit all currently existing ones. Unless, of course, these coins were actually only minted in Medellin. I have not seen any from Bogota of the listed dates, and that would explain why NGC does not mention the mint.

And I am not sure what the different head styles and different stars are about--all examples I have seen looked the same to me.

Either way, I will see what the referee has to say about this. :`
Status changed to Started (Sulfur, 12-Nov-2018, 21:51)
Thank you very much for your explanation Sulfur.

Anyways, I still think the variant on Krause is cause of the 7 & 8 pointed stars, and for the we-don't-know difference of head, but not about the mint house. To easily understand it, just think of German coins, like 1 Pfennig, or American, like Nickel quarter and Silver quarter, they both have several mint houses, and are identified by different letters, but Krause does not make variants for them, only for other changes, like metal, different designs, etc.

On my side will ask a Colombian friend, I think he will be able to give us more information.
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Ok, this is what I found:


On left KM# 161.1, on right KM# 161.2. out of different amount of points on star, the head looks different. The image is from other site, not in authorized sites, so we can't use it. And by the way, both are minted at Medellin.
Just 10 options: you understand binary, or you don't.
Catalog Referee Coins, Banknotes & Exonumia: Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Zamunda, Parva Domus and more.
And just now, I found an image (KM 161.2) from authorized site, I'm adding it to coin page.
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Pictures! Perfect! :`

While I do not see many major differences in the heads, the stars are definitely different, which means one is KM#161.1, and the other is KM#161.2. And if both those were minted in Medellin, I think that means no new year-lines need to be added, but rather, all that say "Bogota" need to be changed to "Medellin" (so it is just an error with Numista's page).
Quote: "Sulfur"​Pictures! Perfect! :`

​While I do not see many major differences in the heads, the stars are definitely different, which means one is KM#161.1, and the other is KM#161.2. And if both those were minted in Medellin, I think that means no new year-lines need to be added, but rather, all that say "Bogota" need to be changed to "Medellin" (so it is just an error with Numista's page).
​Is your choice, but just in case, I would first ask the owners (if they are not too much) to check mint before switching, if any of them have Bogota, then we should add the line. Better to ask first than fix later.
Just 10 options: you understand binary, or you don't.
Catalog Referee Coins, Banknotes & Exonumia: Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Zamunda, Parva Domus and more.
There are not many members who have the Bogota year-lines marked as owned--a little less than twenty. Contacting them would be easy, but it appears the referee for Colombia has not yet read the message I sent them. So... I will give them some time to see that message before sending out even more messages. :)
Status changed to Done (Sulfur, 25-Nov-2018, 01:00)
Whew! Done. :`

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