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My pictures stolen and used on Colnect

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brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 237
Hello Numista Administrators

I decided to have a look at Colnect because I suspected that my photos might have been used on there. So I registered as a new user. Upon browsing the Australian coin pages on there I was amazed to find that literally hundreds of my photos have been used on there. I did not give permission to anyone else to use them. ;(

I have spent a massive amount of effort and time getting the Australian Decimal coin section on Numista up to scratch. Every single coin has a good picture and complete information. It was not like that when I first joined. If I was being paid for the time I have spent fixing things up on Numista I would be a very rich man now. 8)

Anyway I have raised a forum question on the Colnect website Forum and this is what I said to them .....

Hello - I am a new member on here and have just browsed the coin section. I am also a member on another coin collecting site which I won't mention but it begins with N.

On the other website I am a very active member and have made many contributions to it. Especially Australian coins. This is my activity on there. Catalogue contributions - 291 coins added, 530 years added, 1223 coins edited, 781 years edited, Forum posts 223

I have spent many, many hours taking photos of coins, editing them, cropping them etc that I have then uploaded for the betterment of that website.

Everyone of those coins I have added with photos has this underneath the photo ....© Mike Bentley
So much to my surprise I find that on this website hundreds of my photos have been stolen from the other website and used here.

These are just some examples of my stolen photos on colnect ......
https://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/922-Australia/series/339154-2018_-_Anzac_Spirit
https://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/922-Australia/series/298964-2017_-_Ford_Australian_Classics
https://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/922-Australia/series/332437-2018_-_Bathurst_Legend
https://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/922-Australia/series/300785-2017_-_Planetary_Coins
https://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/922-Australia/series/332436-2018_-_Motorsport_Legend
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/63829-1_Dollar_100th_Federation_of_Australia_Multicolor_logo-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/38264-5_Dollars_Paralympics-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/38264-5_Dollars_Paralympics-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/18759-50_Cents_Centenary_of_Federation_-_multicolour-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/63452-1_Dollar_5_Kangaroos_Hologram-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/63453-1_Dollar_5_Kangaroos_coloured_brown_30_Years_of_Mob_of_Roos-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/63454-1_Dollar_5_Kangaroos_Partially_Gold_Plated-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/18758-50_Cents_Millenium_Year_-_multicolour-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/63401-50_Cents_Australian_Coat_of_Arms_Colour-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/63402-50_Cents_Australian_Coat_of_Arms_Gold_Gilded-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/922-Australia/series/218296-Numismatic_Product_-_Alphabet_Coin_Collection

Can someone on here, preferably a senior admin member please explain how and why my photos have been used without my permission?
Also who is the colnect member that actually uploaded the ones I listed above on here, because I would like to have a chat with them?

Regards - Mike Bentley


I'm not sure what the response from them will be but I am very pissed off that they have done this.

Your thoughts?

Cheers Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 5541
Hello Mike,

as it happens, I will probably be the senior one that responds. First of all, try to search on numista forum about colnect (use the search on top of the page). Thing is, colnect is stealing pictures wherever it finds them.

I raised the topic on coinphotostealnect myself, and Xavier and few other members did as well. Their response will be insults, totally unfounded claim that they have right to use all internet pictures based on one blog page (which is totally ridiculous, and blog page itself says it does not show the law) and of course, deleting your forum post there and banning your account.

Only way how to deal with that is take them to court. (Although some members succeded in removing their photos by askking to modify a coin - apparently, there is some minor admin that cares). As far as I know, nobody had the will, money and time to actually take them to court. If you will be the one that does so, you shall have my support.
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Kingdom of Bohemia.
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 237
Thanks for the reply Jarcek - When I asked that question about a response from a senior administrator it was directed at them in the post I have put on their website, not you. The bolded part of the above post is what I said to them.

They have already responded and this is what they have said..... (Someone called tcawe was the responder)

Hi Mike,

Welcome to Colnect and we hope you'll enjoy becoming a part of our community

Colnect offers collectors from around the world extensive catalogs for free. The catalogs are created in a wiki-like fashion as described on http://colnect.com/help/collecting/more_collectibles
Many collectors contribute information to Colnect's catalogs and many more enjoy this information which helps collectors know more about what interests them.
Collectors contributing to Colnect agreed to our "Terms of Service" which include clear instructions protecting copyrights.
Colnect abides to the Israeli copyrights law which, similar to other copyrights laws, protects original creations. Factual information, such as the size of a banknote or weight of a coin, cannot be protected. Copying an existing creation which has copyrights, such as when scanning a banknote or taking a picture of a bottle cap or coin, does not grant copyrights to the person making the copy.

You're welcome to read the discussion on viewtopic.php?f=90&t=76383 as well and I hope it'll answer your questions.

We don't have a complete history of all items but judging from the Colnect IDs of the single coins you've included, you're referring to coins which have been added to Colnect many years ago so I doubt we can find the "who" exactly. Are you fine with these pictures serving collectors worldwide to identify their coins and use Colnect or is this something you dislike? The word "stolen" is definitely misplaced here.


This is my reply to them .......

I definitely do dislike the fact that pictures I have very clearly placed a copyright note on another coin collecting website have been taken from that website without my permission. The very first item on the list above was only placed on the other coin website within the last 2 months. Those coins have only been around since then. The last one of that batch of 2018 Anzac Spirit coins was only uploaded on 9th December 2018 to the other site.

I don't care about the information about the coins such as weight, metal size etc, but I do care about my pictures being used. Pictures which I spent many hours producing. You can say what you like but they have been stolen.

I request that they be removed from Colnect immediately. The ones I listed above are only a sample of the pictures that are showing on Colnect that were taken without my permission.

Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 5541
Oh, they went quite softly on you, so you directed a punch. Well done. I am just worried next thing will be ban for you on their forum... :(
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Kingdom of Bohemia.
Oklahoman
Joined: 20-Dec-2015
Posts: 1613
I dont even go to their website. It is so offensive.
JRo69
Joined: 9-Jul-2015
Posts: 598
Quote: "Oklahoman"​I dont even go to their website. It is so offensive.
​I am on that site for my banknotes, but will abandon it as soon as Notista is up and running.
CassTaylor
Joined: 30-May-2014
Posts: 7363
Quote: "JRo69"
Quote: "Oklahoman"​I dont even go to their website. It is so offensive.
​​I am on that site for my banknotes, but will abandon it as soon as Notista is up and running.
​Uh, yeah, about that.....

Coming Soon™
:(


Could I just point out the response Mike got from the Colnect admin there; they say:
"Are you fine with these pictures serving collectors worldwide to identify their coins and use Colnect or is this something you dislike?"

I don't know if what he quotes about Israeli copyright law is accurate, but in that quote there is some next-level attempt at guilting. As soon as Notista does get launched (around 2037 I reckon) I too will say adieu to Colnect. 8~
une Franglaise; ♪ je brosse ma chevelure ♫
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 237
I posted a further comment on Colnect as follows .....

I see you have posted this in the past .......
  • We have a procedure for reporting suspected copyright infringement and we treat all such reports very
  • seriously. Please contact us. Thanks Amir Wald - Founder of Colnect Collectors Community.

So please send me the procedure because I will be examining every Australian Coin on your website and looking for pictures that I made. Pictures I took of my own personal coins. Coins that belong to me. Pictures that I edited etc. It will be a big list.
Mike Bentley



Colnect Admin tcawe (Amir Wald? )replied to me in a PM as follows.....

Attached please find the document you've asked for.
Now a question: was your main reason for joining Colnect requesting removal of images or do you plan to be a part of our community?


The attachment he sent was a file called "InfringementReport.ODS" which is supposed to be an Open Document Spreadsheet, however the one sent to me was corrupted and can't be opened so, I have asked for another uncorrupted one to be sent.

I also replied to them which I will detail in a separate following post.

Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 237
This is the actual reply I sent in a PM to his very pointed question which was .....

Now a question: was your main reason for joining Colnect requesting removal of images or do you plan to a be part of our community?

To answer your question. I joined your website out of curiosity. I had heard of Colnect from another coin collector so was interested to find out more about it.

Upon joining and browsing your website I was aghast to find hundreds of my pictures have been used on here without my permission. I am not an admin or even a referee on the other website which you don't like to name for some strange reason. I am just an ordinary member on there, but a very active one.

I uploaded this particular coin and photo there as follows .....
9 Dec 14:32 20 Cents - Elizabeth II (Anzac Spirit - Loyal) – Australia - Validated
This is a link to the uploaded page and photo.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces154714.html

Yet the very same photo appears on your website within a few days? Here is the link
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/131508-20_Cents_Anzac_Spirit_-_Loyal-2018_-_Anzac_Spirit-Australia

You even copied and pasted my wording and description about the obverse and reverse word for word!
This is plagiarism of the worst kind.

So who uploaded it to your website? You will know who it is I am sure.
Please resend a non corrupted version of that Infringement Report file to me.
Mike Bentley


I await their response with bated breath. I believe he sent a corrupted report file on purpose and they will ban me and shut me down soon.

Cheers Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 237
ps - I had to edit that PM I sent to them as they do not allow links to be posted so I removed the HTTPS etc part.

Also after the post is accepted they automatically change the word "Numista.com" to "Other Website"

How freaking paranoid are they?

Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
Salaction
Joined: 2-Apr-2017
Posts: 266
You should go ask for some free juridical advice and see if what they do is a crime. There are many holes in copyright law :) Don't know about there, but here we have some places we can go to for free juridical advice :)
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 2539
Quote: "brismike"​​You even copied and pasted my wording and description about the obverse and reverse word for word!
​This is plagiarism of the worst kind.

​First off, I'm on your side here, mate. But to be fair, and I think you said this earlier too, to copy a description of a coin (or banknote) is not plagiarism, since the coin's motive can easily be described by anyone. The same goes for descitpions of paintings and other items. The picture in itself though, is vandalising the copyright. What you could do is to add a watermark on your coin pics. This will prevent your pics from being copied to Colnect. Why? Because they do not allow pics with watermarks! ;)
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 237
Hi ngdawa

Yes you are right of course and I know there is nothing I can do about it. But to actually copy my actual wording that I came up with personally on the coins that I uploaded word for word, is very low and a cheap act though.

This colnect website is run by people who obviously have no shame and don't give a shit about copying other peoples work.

They still have not sent me a file (Infringement notice) that I can use to complain about my photos being used.

edit - I eventually was able to open the file they sent on another PC - end of edit

Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
Stavros
Joined: 30-Dec-2014
Posts: 408
I had the same standard email thrown to me when i requested to delete the photos they stole from Numista, after i was finished with the norwegian catalogue here. But their response to me was an immediate ban from Colnect...

So i guess you were lucky to come as far as to have a discussion with their admin team!
Referee for Ancient Greece,  Norway and the Kingdom of Cyprus
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 5541
Even that they have STANDARD email for copyrighted photo delete requests is so wrong...
Catalogue administrator, Referee for Kingdom of Bohemia.
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 237
This is a copy of part of their terms and conditions for becoming a member and contributor to Colnect. I have bolded the important bits .....

6. Your User Contributions and Conduct
A. As a Colnect account holder you may submit relevant content. Adding items to the catalogs, editing the catalogs, adding item comments, translations, posting in the forums or sending private messages are collectively referred to as "User Contributions." You understand that Colnect does not guarantee any confidentiality with respect to any User Contributions.

B. You shall be solely responsible for your own User Contributions and the consequences of posting or publishing them. In connection with User Contributions, you affirm, represent, and/or warrant that: you own or have the necessary licenses, rights, consents, and permissions to use and authorize Colnect to use all patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights in and to any and all User Contributions to enable inclusion and use of the User Contributions in the manner contemplated by the Website and these Terms of Service.

C. For clarity, you waive all of your ownership rights in your User Contributions.

D. In connection with User Contributions, you further agree that you will not submit material that is copyrighted, protected by trade secret or otherwise subject to third party proprietary rights, including privacy and publicity rights, unless you are the owner of such rights or have permission from their rightful owner to post the material and to grant Colnect all of the license rights granted herein.

E. You further agree that you will not, in connection with User Contributions, submit material that is contrary to applicable local, national, and international laws and regulations.

F. Colnect does not endorse any User Contributions or any opinion, recommendation, or advice expressed therein, and Colnect expressly disclaims any and all liability in connection with User Contributions. Colnect does not permit copyright infringing activities and infringement of intellectual property rights on its Website, and Colnect will remove all Content and User Contributions if properly notified that such Content or User Contributions infringes on another's intellectual property rights. Colnect reserves the right to remove Content and User Contributions without prior notice.


Regards Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
mikimaus
Joined: 18-Jan-2015
Posts: 74
Simple but hard solution to the case maybe would be lockout just for pictures for non-singned-in users and each coin picture for singned-in users would automatically have their nick name as watermark on the picture. This way you can easily ban accounts of users, who do not understand and respect western civilizational norms and democratic values.
Euromunt
Joined: 20-Aug-2012
Posts: 507
If they are not cooperative, you should consider threatening them with a Notice and Takedown Procedure against them at their hosting provider GoDaddy. Maybe then they will listen.
loruca
Joined: 11-Apr-2015
Posts: 726
Godaddy is in the US right?
Sounds to me like a perfect opportunity for a nice DMCA takedown notice. However, coming from a private individual, I expect that anyone with any knowledge of the procedure will probably go the counter notice route.
EDIT: does seem to be in the US. A DMCA notice is probably pretty easy to serve.
I collect anything: If it's Italian or Italian states i collect it even more!
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 237
Hi guys .. I am going thru the procedure they have asked me to follow to have the photo's taken down from their site. It involves filling in a spreadsheet with a lot of information. Because they have copied virtually hundreds of my pics that I uploaded to Numista it is going to take me some time.

But I will not let them off the hook. The DMCA takedown notice will be something I might have to resort to if they don't play ball.

I'll keep you informed. By the way someone on here is selectively copying and pasting text from this thread onto their site and putting it in a thread I initiated there.

Regards Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 237
Quote: "mikimaus"​Simple but hard solution to the case maybe would be lockout just for pictures for non-singned-in users and each coin picture for singned-in users would automatically have their nick name as watermark on the picture. This way you can easily ban accounts of users, who do not understand and respect western civilizational norms and democratic values.
​I love that Idea. They say they won't use pictures that have a watermark on them.

Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 237
I am thinking of inserting a Watermark on any of my personal pictures that I upload to Numista to try to protect them from being copied/stolen by people too lazy to make their own.

Something like this one .... This is just a test at the moment.



Would that be acceptable on Numista?

Regards Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
loruca
Joined: 11-Apr-2015
Posts: 726
I agree that this is a problem, but I really would not be a fan of watermarked pictures in general...
It makes things look commercial.
Not that the decision is in my hands obviously.
I really think that going down the old DMCA path is the best and most permanent answer. Do it once and you'll never have to do it again.
I collect anything: If it's Italian or Italian states i collect it even more!
CassTaylor
Joined: 30-May-2014
Posts: 7363
I would recommend using a watermark like the one used here by the private distributor (if you can figure out how!):


The way you've done it right now is a little bit intrusive onto the coin's image, but of course having the watermark in the white field is redundant, so this is the best of both worlds. :)
une Franglaise; ♪ je brosse ma chevelure ♫
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 237
Thanks CassTaylor ... Yes you are right it is too intrusive ... I have experimented a little bit more and have come up with this .......



Or this ....



What do you think?

Mike
Collecting - Australian RAM Decimal, UK Decimal, USA Modern & Euros.
Got a question about Aussie RAM Decimal coins? .. I probably can provide the answer. :)
Salaction
Joined: 2-Apr-2017
Posts: 266
Quote: "brismike"​Thanks CassTaylor ... Yes you are right it is too intrusive ... I have experimented a little bit more and have come up with this .......



​Or this ....



​What do you think?

​Mike
​I prefer the above one!
CassTaylor
Joined: 30-May-2014
Posts: 7363
Either works for me! :`

You could probably make the watermark bigger if it were more transparent (like my example) as well, since that would mean they can't simply crop most of your watermark out, and it wouldn't obstruct the photo as much either.
une Franglaise; ♪ je brosse ma chevelure ♫
trvrhldr
Joined: 8-Nov-2015
Posts: 161
If I were a coin's photo thief, I would prefer that one with the @ outside the coin boundaries, to ease the crop job.
Lets adopt the KISS philosophy, "Keep It Simple Sucker"
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 2539
Quote: "trvrhldr"​If I were a coin's photo thief, I would prefer that one with the @ outside the coin boundaries, to ease the crop job.
True!

This is what I've done with my photos of my banknotes:
Obverse / Reverse


Full note
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 2539
Quote: "brismike"​Or this ....



​What do you think?

​Mike
​I'd go for this one. Maybe push it a little more to the left so more touches the coin, and make it transparent so it won't take too muh focus.
My goal is to have at least 1 coin from each modern country.
Countries left: 17

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