How do you tell if a coin is from a shipwreck?

9 posts
Hello,
I recently received a Carlos III-era 8 Reales I had purchased (one of my dream coins!) from MA-Shops, and though it was one of the least expensive pieces of eight there, it was advertised to be a shipwreck coin. I didn’t mind whether that was true or not – just a hugely lucky bonus if true, I like the condition either way – but now I’m wondering: how can you tell if it’s really a shipwreck coin? Are these shipwreck Spanish silver coins common? Also, I see that such coins tend to have wrinkly surfaces (as does mine) but is it caused by having been deep under the sea for a long time, or is it something else? I’d appreciate any help!



Twopence a week, and jam every other day!
This one does fit to be a coin from the El Cazador shipwreck~ The ship sank in 1784 in the Gulf of Mexico, south of New Orleans, Louisiana. It was travelling with coins from the mint in Mexico City, en route to Louisiana when it sank, possibly due to a winter storm. It was rediscovered in 1993, when coins from the wreck were ensnared in the nets of the fishing boat ‘Mistake’ (the boat was trawling for shrimp). The captain of the boat filed a salvage claim, and eventually many more coins were salvaged from the wreck.
These coins all bear the Mexico City mintmark, and the date of 1783~ although I think there could be some some slightly earlier dates in there, can’t recall at moment. Although I am not positive, I think all Mexico City coins with the 1783 date are from this wreck. Maybe someone else here can clarify this for sure.
Your coin also does appear to have the distinctive ‘shipwreck effect’, and probably was inside a clump of coins when first retrieved, as it is in overall better condition than the ones that would have been exposed more to erosion from sand and currents.
Many of the coins are 8 reales, although there are 1/2, 1, and 2 reales that I have encountered. Not sure about the 4 reales, as don’t recall seeing any of these.
Also, the coins were packaged with certificates of authenticity describing their origin, although many of these have been lost over time.
I have several coins from the wreck, in all of the previously mentioned denominations, and think they are fascinating pieces of history. :D
Water damage to silver coins usually shows up in the form of "wrinkly" surfaces, so your coin probably is from a shipwreck (if not, then one way or another it spent a LONG time underwater, anyway).

Here's a "shipwreck" example of my own, a 1936 Philippines 50 centavos recovered from the Manila Bay Hoard; the administration gathered up all the silver coinage they could find when Japan invaded the Philippines in WWII (December 1941), and threw it into Manila Bay to stop the Japanese from getting their hands on it (Japan demanded hard currency from occupied territories, and compensated the locals with worthless military notes that were nicknamed "Mickey Mouse money". :D

The Japanese, and the locals both tried to raise the silver coins, but only did so in small quantities successfully; most of the coins they retrieved ended up in the black market, and it was only after the war that the hoard was recovered. Anyway, this coin clearly has the same "skin problems" as your 8 reales (way more on the reverse, so you can guess which side was more exposed to water!):

I would have no hesitation in stating that your coin was probably from the El Cazador. The governor of New Orleans was constantly requesting funds from the governor of Mexico, and in early 1784, he sent everything he could on that ship. The majority are 1783-dated, but everything else is there as well--all denominations, and a number of earlier dates.

The shipwreck was of tremendous effect to the history of the United States. Since it (and the money) did not arrive in New Orleans, Spain gave Louisiana back to the French; and Napoleon sold the Louisiana Purchase to the United States.

The El Cazador had thousands of coins on board, and, although many have been sold with various COAs, many more thousands have been sold without them. At some of the ANA Conventions, I had the opportunity to pick from large lots of the coins without COAs.
Quote​CassTaylor​
"​Here's a "shipwreck" example of my own, a 1936 Philippines 50 centavos recovered from the Manila Bay Hoard;"

Where in the world did you get that? I read about that when I was a little kid. The Japanese used some POW's as divers to try and recover the coins, and the Americans were sabotaging the operation any way that they could. A lot of cases of coins were "accidentally" spilled on the harbor floor.

I've gotta get me one of those!
Quote: "Remo"
Quote​CassTaylor​
​"​Here's a "shipwreck" example of my own, a 1936 Philippines 50 centavos recovered from the Manila Bay Hoard;"
​​
​Where in the world did you get that? I read about that when I was a little kid. The Japanese used some POW's as divers to try and recover the coins, and the Americans were sabotaging the operation any way that they could. A lot of cases of coins were "accidentally" spilled on the harbor floor.

​I've gotta get me one of those!
​I got it in a coin shop in the UK a few years ago. :`

To be honest it's not really hard to find Filipino silver coins with saltwater damage ("shipwreck coins") that were part of the Manila Bay hoard in coin stores; but I'm particularly pleased with this one because it's not a normal 50 centavo coin, but the 1935 Murphy-Quezon commemorative, with a mintage of only 20,000. :8D
That's awesome! A user here (that I knew of under a different name elsewhere) graciously pm'd me telling me he had some for sale. I'm going to research this further; I'd have to have one of these even if I weren't a collector. This is history.

Now I get to do my favorite thing...research.

Thanks again to everyone that helped educate me.
Oh man, I had completely forgotten about this post! Thought I’d left a reply, haha.

And thank you! I didn’t think it could be from the famous El Cazador. Like, at all. That is so cool! I got it for about 70 euros, but considering the common prices of the NGC-certified ones and non-shipwreck 8 Reales of this period, I suppose I was rather lucky?

I had vaguely heard of the Manila thing but that’s interesting as well! I mainly like to collect pirate-y coins but these shipwreck silver coins look fascinating...I think I may look for some sometime!
Twopence a week, and jam every other day!
I got another today!




Likely an El Cazador silver, too. The reverse looks pretty well preserved!
Twopence a week, and jam every other day!

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