Please help with 2 unknown coins [solved]

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Hi,

got these 2 coins earlier today:


#1 I have no idea where to start. 13 mm x 10 mm.
#2 is clearly islamic, on photo 1 I see a part of that "struck in" common in ottoman coins, and I think there's a "misr" (Egypt) on photo 2. No success looking here on Numista. 21 mm.

Any help is appreciated.
#2 may be a Tunisian fals: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces42260.html
Quote: "Arusak"​#2 may be a Tunisian fals: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces42260.html
​And that's it! Date unreadable unfortunately.

About #1, I know that there's an animal, but I can't distinguish the head, only legs and tail. On the other side I see 4 circles forming a cross or a flower, and maybe some letters (left photo at 3 o'clock).
On this one I really need a direction.
Hello,

For #1 I think it could be a damaged Mysore 1/4 Paisa, judging by the dimensions and the animal on the back:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?mode=simplifie&p=1&l=mysore_kingdom&r=1%2F4+&e=mysore_kingdom&d=&ca=3&no=&i=&v=&m=&a=&t=&dg=&w=&u=&f=&g=&c=&tb=y&tc=y&tn=y&tp=y&tt=y&te=y&cat=y

It could be another variety, or I could be completely off the mark, but that's my guess. :O
Quote: "CassTaylor"​Hello,

​For #1 I think it could be a damaged Mysore 1/4 Paisa, judging by the dimensions and the animal on the back:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?mode=simplifie&p=1&l=mysore_kingdom&r=1%2F4+&e=mysore_kingdom&d=&ca=3&no=&i=&v=&m=&a=&t=&dg=&w=&u=&f=&g=&c=&tb=y&tc=y&tn=y&tp=y&tt=y&te=y&cat=y

​It could be another variety, or I could be completely off the mark, but that's my guess. :O
Very off the mark, I've searched Mysore on Numista and Zeno and nothing. On my coin there's no scripts on the center reverse, only circles.

If we could distinguish which animal is there...
I have a similar as your coin 1, with circles:
Vijayanagara, 15th century


just a thought...
Non est totum quod splendet ut aurum
Rijkdom bestaat niet uit het hebben van veel bezittingen, maar in het hebben van weinig behoeften
Quote: "PetrusAscanus"​I have a similar as your coin 1, with circles:
​Vijayanagara, 15th century


​just a thought...
​Thanks, I've checked it on Zeno.
Indeed the Vijayanagara kasus are the closest ones so far.

But my bull (if it's a bull) is not surrounded by dots but by a single line with "sunrays" outwards.

I'll try to get new photos tomorrow (from a friend that have a better camera).
New photos:
Up.

Just to know, I've finished checking the entire South Asia catalog on Zeno (copper and 10-15 mm as the only filters), and after 82 pages of results nothing identical. One or another similar but not similar enough.

If it's not India, where I should look next? And if it's India, what am I missing?


Please give me some ideas.
Quick update, nothing yet (searched other Zeno categories), I've sent an e-mail to Zeno.

Other thing worth of note, I think the letters on photo 2 at 3 o'clock are OV or ΛO (or may be nothing).
Up as it's almost falling to page 2 and no solution yet.

The only update is that unfortunately my photos don't have enough resolution to be posted on Zeno (took them with a friend's cellphone).

Someone got an idea?
Another post.

I'm done with Zeno, I think I've searched all the galleries there. Nothing so far.

A thing that have passed in my head, could it be european? Some issuer in Europe that made coin with a lion to right?
If not, then I ask: the style of the coin is ocidental or oriental?


In the moment I'm out of ideas to narrow the search.
Someone have a light out there?



One last thing, best regards for whoever reads this.
Hi again.

A thing ocurred to me when I held that coin again.

I realized that the "tail" actually links to the head. And the only possibility for this is if the head is actually a helmet. I've always thought the head was strange as it doesn't resemble any animal.

And (again) a search on Numista and Zeno using the keyword helmet and marking copper as metal ended in nothing.


After reading my sequence of thoughts, someone got an idea?
Thanks for reading this.
Up before it falls on page 2.
I'm still open for new ideas.
Up (again).
Entry number ...whatever.

Did another search at Zeno.
Certainly it looks like medieval or post-medieval India.

Closest coins are from Vijayanagara Empire (or successors) and Nayaks of Madurai. Thre's also similar-styled coins from the ancient city of Ujjain, but I think it's not the case.

This one is the closest so far: https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=194163. Reverse is similar.
Nothing identical so far.

I need to hear someone else's opinion. Is anybody out there capable of answering me?
Anyways thanks for reading.
Up again...
Anybody there?
Just to say that it is definitely South Indian, and that is an incredibly complex series - you will find only a tiny portion of existing types on Zeno. There are numerous books published in India, mostly 1990s and later, covering one or more series. You could spend about $200+ to get all of them, and then MAYBE you will find your coin, worth about $2 retail. You need a real specialist to simply ID it from photos. Sorry to be discouraging, but this is one of what I call a "frontier" series where issuers were so numerous and prolific, and created novel or degenerated designs so frequently, that many unpublished types exist.
Quote: "coincoin.com"​Just to say that it is definitely South Indian, and that is an incredibly complex series - you will find only a tiny portion of existing types on Zeno. There are numerous books published in India, mostly 1990s and later, covering one or more series. You could spend about $200+ to get all of them, and then MAYBE you will find your coin, worth about $2 retail. You need a real specialist to simply ID it from photos. Sorry to be discouraging, but this is one of what I call a "frontier" series where issuers were so numerous and prolific, and created novel or degenerated designs so frequently, that many unpublished types exist.
​Thanks, that's something. I was on the right track then (the most similar ones I've found were from south India).

"Frontier series", huh? It makes me feel that I've accidentally entered an unexplored territory (kind of). No wonder that I was so lost.


One last thing before marking this thread as solved: do you have a time period estimate? (medieval, post-medieval, from x century...)
Quote: "coincoin.com"​Just to say that it is definitely South Indian, and that is an incredibly complex series - you will find only a tiny portion of existing types on Zeno. There are numerous books published in India, mostly 1990s and later, covering one or more series. You could spend about $200+ to get all of them, and then MAYBE you will find your coin, worth about $2 retail. You need a real specialist to simply ID it from photos. Sorry to be discouraging, but this is one of what I call a "frontier" series where issuers were so numerous and prolific, and created novel or degenerated designs so frequently, that many unpublished types exist.
​That explains why I have so much trouble to identify my indian coins : I have a bit more than 30 coins (different types) from this area that remains unidentified even after spending hours on Zeno.
It could be Madurai Nayaka coin as the " Sri Vira " writing is almost clear
There are lot of different types
https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=2425&lot=908
                      
Quote: "vinumohan"​It could be Madurai Nayaka coin as the " Sri Vira " writing is almost clear
​There are lot of different types
https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=2425&lot=908
​Not exactly the same type but very similar. As you said there's many types, finding the exact one is like finding a needle in a haystack.

Madurai Nayaks are related to the Vijayanagara (they were part of their empire and it's one of their successor states), so I was close.

Thanks to you I can close the case.

To finalize this thread: Never heard about these kingdoms before buying that coin.
Status changed to Solved (Giobruno, 10-Mar-2019, 00:43)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampi
It’s a UNESCO protected site of 14 th century Vijayanagara Empire capital it’s still there
                      
Quote: "vinumohan"https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampi
​It’s a UNESCO protected site of 14 th century Vijayanagara Empire capital it’s still there
​Nice!:8D

Found something on Wikipedia, on the Nayaks of Madurai page, Nayaka coins section (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madurai_Nayak_dynasty):
"Chokkanatha Nayak, one of the last rulers of the dynasty, issued coins displaying various animals, such as the bear, elephant and lion."

Since my coin is reasonably similar to the one in your link, I can conclude that the animal on my coin is a badly drawn lion. This king in particular reigned on the early 18th century, I think I can narrow down my time estimate.
This thread is solved but I want to add some information here:
I've found a forum topic about the Sri Vira coinage, and the one shown to illustrate the lion type is ~90% similar of my coin - that's my coin type! (but other subtype I think)

Here it is: http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=19751.0
And guess who made the topic - our friend Einstein (Quant-Geek)!

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