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Advertising counterpunch on French Empire coin [solved]

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Coinman48
Joined: 16-Sep-2015
Posts: 458
I found this advertising for a wine seller on an actual French Empire 10 centimes coin of 1855. Would you regard it as a coin with post mint damage and virtually worthless (mintmark eaten by verdigris) or as a token and would it have some value as such?

Thanks for any comments.

Will
Steve27
Joined: 22-Mar-2016
Posts: 1282
All counterstamped coins are tokens. If you look at the Rulau text "Standard Catalog of United States Tokens 1700-1900" you will find 100s of counterstamped coins. The only exceptions are coins of one government which are counterstamped by another government, which are then used as coinage, or coinage counterstamped by a government to revalue the coinage.
DonnCarlo
Joined: 4-Dec-2019
Posts: 12
aye, It's just considered a token now, but luckily the token world isn't nearly as strict as the coin world as far as condition, it's neat that it even exists and is clearly a period piece. It has some value, I would guess at least $10-$20 bucks maybe more to the right buyer.
Hell to be honest all the value is in the counter-stamp at this point, same coin in that condition with out the CS would probably be worth less than a buck.

There is a fairly good amount of Counter-Stamp collectors out there and the scarcity of that particular CS would likely be of some interest to a collector of CS.

Thanks for showing it, it's definitely a real treat ;-)
DonnCarlo
Joined: 4-Dec-2019
Posts: 12
http://richhartzog.com/art/cmd.htm

Your counter-stamp shows up on this list on page 4 under V
Status changed to Solved (Coinman48, 5-Dec-2019, 02:01AM)
Coinman48
Joined: 16-Sep-2015
Posts: 458
Thanks very much for the helpful information and link, guys. I appreciate it.

Will
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 2995
This is quite interesting. I have Brunk's book (see DonnCarlo's link) and will check tonight if your countermark is on the same or a different undertype (or host).

The primary criterion to evaluate such coins is the countermark itself. So, you can have an XF countermark on an AG coin.

For more info on countermarks, you may want to have a look at this thread from several months ago.
••• ₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€. •••
Coinman48
Joined: 16-Sep-2015
Posts: 458
Thanks, Camerinvs!

Will
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 2995
Greg Brunk, Merchant and Privately Countermarked Coins (Exonumia Press 2003) p. 321 reports that this is a countermark from Belgium. Flament was the salesman; he probably had his shop in Liège where there are both a St. Gilles and an Avroy street.

This c/m was known to Brunk on the following hosts:

English penny: 1863, 1874
French 5 centimes: 1854, 1856, 1857
French 10 centimes: 1872

Yours being a 10 centimes 1855 is therefore a new date for the 10 centimes.

With 6 (now 7) attested specimens, this is a somewhat commoner c/m since most c/ms are know to one or two specimens only. Still, few countermarks are so detailed, so it's a nice piece to have in one's collection.

Here is one for sale on a worn out 10 centimes (so, now at least 8 specimens). This is a good example that the countermark matters more than the undertype. You'll note that the E of NAPLES is broken ─as on yours─ and looks almost like an "F". Brunk has the photo of one of the 5 centimes which shows an earlier stage of the punch since the E is complete.

All the coins known to us so far are foreign (i.e. not Belgian). This may be because there were laws against defacing the national currency.

It would be interesting to know whether Flament was attested in old directories and almanachs. I don't know whether any of such publications exist on-line for Belgium in the 1850s─1870s.
••• ₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€. •••
Coinman48
Joined: 16-Sep-2015
Posts: 458
Fascinating stuff! I'll definitely hang on to this item. Thank you!

Will
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 2995
From a quick search in Google Images:

Jetons publicitaires
••• ₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€. •••

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