What is the source of Numista catalog choosen to classify coin as "non circulating issue"?
It is not an easy information. For instance Krause not report this usefull data.
Single country collectors know very well circulating coins of own country but don’t know situation of other countries. I live in Italy and I know exactly list of coins circulating in my country but very few for other european countries. How do for minor african countries?
Many world coins collectors don’t collect coins minted only for numismatic purpose because don’t consider them true coins, but only nice object to sell by mint or numismatic shops. So for them it is important to know exactly if certain types are put in regular use or not.
Preparing my wish list I have cancelled many coins from my list because on Numista catalog they were reported as "non circulating issue" but some time later I have to add again because I have found them in worn condition, means that they were taken from market.
Just today I have received Sudan km74 Commemorative 5 ghirsh in very fine condition!! (but mintage of 5 million coins would be too much for a n.c.i. of a small country).
What is it possible to do to improve data? Pheraps when we are not sure it woud be better report them as unknown as suggested in the Guidelines for editing the catalog.
Enrico
That's exactly what I thought now for some Slovenian 3 Euro coins, they are legal tender and sometimes circulate because of they have a relative low value, but in fact they are non-circulating issue made only for collectors.
I made a change request for those Slovenian 3 euro coins.
Yes, kommodore, I'm from Slovenia and didn't see any of 3 Euro coins in circulation but they are legal payment here. When first 3 Euro coin came out here there was one survey and merchants didn't even know that is possible to pay with this coin.
I think it's the same with other Euro coins (1,5; 2,5; 5 etc.) in other eurozone countries.
To make those Slovenian coins as circulating issue was my change request too but at that time (I think it was in November last year) some Numista team member told me that if Euro coin is legal only in home country then it's non circulating issue and I agreed with that. I see that this rule is changed (few days ago I made request for Portuguese Euro coins and it was rejected).
BTW - in few days (at 18th of June) new Slovenian 3 € coin will be issued...
well they might be non circulating issues, but fallen in hands of non collectors and so lost the UNC status due to non conservation by the owner. I have bought at face value at a currency exchange here in Albania a 25 Kuna, in VF condition, that is clearly a non circulating issue. See images.
All the non circulating coins are legal tender as they are officially issued by a government as long as they bear a value. But they are not intended for circulation.
As per Sudan, that results to me being the 16th country in the world by surface with a popolation of over 30 million inhabitants...
please dont make confusion. Ok Sudan is a great country but not from numismatic point of view and an unc coins could become dirty nicked corrosed but if it is worn and wear is so great to pass from unc to very fine or also fine means that many hands touched it for many years!!!
Enrico
"An unc coins could become dirty nicked corrosed but if it is worn and wear is so great to pass from unc to very fine or also fine means that many hands touched it for many years"
Borut this experience is valid for all mint and all countries, not only for CROATIA or SUDAN emissions
Enrico
I had a look at Sudan coins in here and the same series, commemorating the same event, but 10 Ghirsh, is not marked as a non circulating issue...More over, the 5 ghirsh coin picture is a little worn, so even that was not UNC. I think the one who created that coin ticked a box by mistake.
You can ask for a change at the Catalog forum, or you can request a change, directly at the coin sheet. The team members who approve the coins should be more careful in reviewing a coins detail.
Borut many thanks for your info, request to change already done.
But problem to ascertain surely circulation of coins remain for many world coin collectors.
We need a good solution. An help from collectors of each country members of Numista?
Enrico
I think that this could be a good idea. Some team member would ask to Numista collectors to confirm effective circulation of coins of their country preparing a list.
For instance series of Croazia 25 Kuna KM 47, 48, 49, 63, 64, 65 are effectively not circulating as reported.
Collectors living in Croazia could answer easily.
Enrico
This issue is kind of tricky. Many commemorative issues circulate only technically, e.g., numismatists/coin dealers pick them right from the banks in bulk quantity and sell them later for a nice profit. For example, this is the case with the Russian 10 roubles bi-metallic coins. Would you consider them non-circulating because of that?
It's easy to respond if you search on Russian mint site.
And here it is: http://www.cbr.ru/eng/bank-notes_coins/coins/?file=Coins_97/rub_10_10.htm.
It says at the bottom: The coins of this type are issued with different reverses in the frame of the commemorative programs of the Bank of Russia.
They are under Circulating coins of the Bank of Russia of Issue 1997 category.
So they circulate normally.
I dont know what it happens in other countries, but usually numismatic/coins dealer are not able/authorized to buy all coins struck for circulation use. Also in Italy it happen that numismatics buy large amount of these coins to make business ma it is only a small percent of mintage.
When Sudan mint 5 million of commemorative km 74 it is difficult than dealer of all world (including USA that are more active) can buy all them.
Enrico
What about the new president coins from the USA? You can only get them from the mint and dealers but if you put them in circulation they are legal tender and any business will take them.
Please we muat avoid to make confusion. Nobody says that "non circulating issue" have not legal tender. But they are always coins struck only for numismatic use not for circulation. Enrico
Quote: sccedaNo, they don't. Ask Russian collectors.
I disagree with you, these coins are circulated normally in Russia. I have several that my relativies got as change in stores and sent to me. They never bought any of these coins.
Please can we come back to my initial proposal.
Is it possible with the contribution of collectors of each country and supervision of Numista team to prepare a list of coins not release for circulation for each country so to improve our world coin catalog?
From my past 40 years experience of contacts with other collectors I have seen that world coins collectors
- about 95 % collect by type
- only less than 5% collect all years
and within coins type collectors
- at least 25% collect only coins issued for circulation
- 75% collect all coins issue by mints
of course this rough statistical depends on many influencing factors as country, belong a coin club, swap or not, ......and many others variable.
Enrico
I think they need to distinguish between Legal Tender and made for General Circulation. All coins issued by a country at their time are legal tender, but not all are for mass consumption. Mintage data can reflect this a little, but not always. Like in Australia, there are some 50 cents and $1 commemorative that are made for release via banks and a lot that are only issued to numismatist, but these are sometimes found in circulation.
Well, you can tell...
In Argentina, we have a lot of these situations:
The 1 Centavo coin is no more used because of its low value, although it figures in the Central Bank' website as a legal circulation coin.
The 50 Centavos and 1 Peso commemorative coins do not circulate because of their "commemorations". There haven't been commemorative coins in Argentina since dictatorship times, so people save them as treasures.
The 2 Pesos coins (copper-nickel ones). Because of their weight and size, are saved because they are really uncomfortable for pockets or wallets. And these coins are saved, too, as treasures because of being "rare" in here.
Resumé: one does not simply get a commemorative coin circulating in Argentina.
CROATIA KM48 and KM49 are reported on catalog as "non circulating issue" while you can receive them in an exchange office located in Italia/Croazia border area in xf condition. Please cancel and ask confirmation to some Croatian collector. Enrico
thanks Borut you are right. My friends showed me coins received at exchange office coming back from Croatia and being too old I thought old border area Italia/Yugoslavia, forgetting your nice country.
But perhaps you can confirm me about their circulation. Enrico
Nothing wrong, Enrico many of Croatians also have in mind that Italia is bordering on Croatia (over the Adriatic sea for sure!) :)
Unfortunately I can't confirm you about that coins, I live near Austrian border, not Italian...
Quote: enricoFor instance series of Croazia 25 Kuna KM 47, 48, 49, 63, 64, 65 are effectively not circulating as reported.
Collectors living in Croazia could answer easily.
Enrico
No, Enrico, I gone in Croatia sometimes and I've always find 25 Kuna in circolation; but is not not easy to find, I must ask in Post Office, in Bank, in supermarket, and when I found them, I paied them 25 kuna no more.
But Mintage is low so they are very difficoultus find in few time; like 500 tolariev in Slovenia, they are absolutly circulating, but I find only in few shop.
[No, Enrico, I gone in Croatia sometimes and I've always find 25 Kuna in circolation; but is not not easy to find, I must ask in Post Office, in Bank, in supermarket, and when I found them, I paied them 25 kuna no more.
But Mintage is low so they are very difficoultus find in few time; like 500 tolariev in Slovenia, they are absolutly circulating, but I find only in few shop.Why do you write NO?, I agree to you these Croatia coins seem to be circulating coins, so I 'll propose to modify Numista catalog, thanks.
Borut, also for your 500 Tolariev. Even if I think that are only those struck after 2000. I dont collect them because they are already XXI century but I am still missing many 5 Tolariev commemorative, so if you have all them we can open a swap. Of course if you need some of my duplicates. Usually I exchange at same Krause total value because is difficult to evalatued them only by their total number.
It is a pleasure to find cooperation by other collectors. Enrico
I'm sorry but commemorative circulating Tolar coins are hot stuff and at this time when Euro is here it's hard to find any duplicate commemorative Tolar coin.
