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Catalogue errors - Silver and non-silver coin versions

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bmnobbs
Joined: 9-Mar-2014
Posts: 133
Looking through the catalogue / coin database, I am confused by many listings where there are both "cu-ni" and "silver" versions of the same coin.
In many, many cases the coin dimensions listed are exactly the same. Exactly the same width, depth and weight.
As someone who uses specific gravity testing to help distinguish "real" silver from "fake" silver, (coin suspension in water) this annoys me.
As almost all coin Silver [S.G. = 9.8-10.5] has a specific gravity of at least 10% above Cu-Ni, [S.G. = 8.9] it's impossible that both versions of a coin could have exactly the same dimensions.
But why is there no difference being shown ? Is it laziness, or ignorance ? Or errors in Krause ? Or ---- ???
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 3180
It's probably that someone transferred the info from one page to the other and changed only the metal composition.

Do you have any specific example? Then we could see whether it's carelessness or a problem that goes back to Krause or whatever else.
••• ₱o$₮ag€ $₮am₱$ a₹€ mo₹€ £€₲i₮ima₮€ a$ a ƒo₹m oƒ ¢u₹₹€nc¥ ₮ha₦ ₮h€ €₦₮i₹€ "¢oi₦" ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ oƒ ₦au₹u o₹ ₦iu€. ••• £€$ ₮im฿₹€$-₱o$₮€ $o₦₮ ₱£u$ £é₲i₮im€$ €₦ ₮a₦t qu'o฿j€₮$ mo₦é₮ai₹€$ qu€ £a ₱₹odu¢₮io₦ €₦₮iè₹€ d€ «mo₦₦ai€$» d€ ₦au₹u ou d€ ₦iu€. •••
bmnobbs
Joined: 9-Mar-2014
Posts: 133
To start ;- All 3 (6 versions) of the South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands 2006 £2 coins
and
2 Pounds 1997 - Elizabeth II 3rd portrait; Technology & 2 Pounds 1997- Elizabeth II Technology; Silver Proof
or maybe better to show this this way :- (UK £1 coins)
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1397.html & https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces62663.html
or Australia $1 coins
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces74728.html & https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces75968.html
or Alderney £1
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces60591.html & https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces12845.html
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 3180
Interesting. For the Cook Islands, my Krause is perhaps too old because the silver version is missing. For the two others, however, the weight is the same for silver and copper-nickel issues. However, I don't think the Numista pages take their info from Krause necessarily since the diameter for the Alderney issues are slightly different in Krause.

Either Krause and Numista are mistaken, or else the silver issues are ever so slightly smaller (perhaps a tenth of a mm thinner or something like that??) so that the weights would be identical.
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bmnobbs
Joined: 9-Mar-2014
Posts: 133
For both to be the identical weight, the copper-nickel one would have to be 10% - 15% thicker if the diameter is the same. E.G. the cu-ni and 40% Silver Eisenhower Dollar
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3366.html & https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces15203.html
where the 40% silver dollar is almost 10% heavier, having the same dimensions

Here's an example of the different 50% & 92.5% silver giving 5% different width (purer silver heavier/narrow)
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces42933.html & https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces22432.html

OR, going on the same type of coin -
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces79171.html & https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces167502.html

So probably some people at Krause, AND Numista are being a bit lazy on inputting the correct figures
adanieluy
Joined: 2-Dec-2012
Posts: 493
No, Numista people (specifically referees and admin team) are not lazy, nor ignorant.

Possibly, there are mistakes on the source of data, and when someone adds said data to a coin, would trust on that source, and is very possible the data was not added for both silver and non-silver coins at same time, so inconsistency was not noticed.

Instead of using so rude words to people that work everyday to make the Numista catalog complete and accurate, you can provide the correct data, requesting modifications, if you have it. Otherwise, if you only notice the discrepancy, and don't have the correct details, you can just post in forum to let us know, or send PM to country's referee.

In other words, is much more profitable for everyone to help to fix mistakes and share knowledge than just criticize and accuse people of laziness and ignorance.
There are 10 types of people, those who understand binary, and those who doesn't.

Catalog Referee for Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Puerto Rico
co-referee for Brazil, Curaçao, Cayman Islands, Netherlands West Indies, Saint Eustatius, Sint Maarten
MK Ultra
Joined: 7-Nov-2019
Posts: 10
Well written.
I was not wrong then, I am more correct now.
bmnobbs
Joined: 9-Mar-2014
Posts: 133
I'll apologise and withdraw that. Wrong wording.
I realise that the vast majority of referees do actually check up on exact specifics, and most will realise that a Silver coin could not possibly have the exact same dimensions as a Cu-Ni, or Aluminium-Bronze or any other metallic / bi-mettalic combo.
BUT, this having been said, I am disappointed that this occurs so frequently throughout the catalogue and will, in future, point out the possible errors to the referees when I observe them.
It took less than 10 minutes getting the 7 examples I listed in post one.
I will make a point later of pointing these out to whichever referees regulate their specific entries.
adanieluy
Joined: 2-Dec-2012
Posts: 493
Quote: "bmnobbs"​I'll apologise and withdraw that. Wrong wording.
​I realise that the vast majority of referees do actually check up on exact specifics, and most will realise that a Silver coin could not possibly have the exact same dimensions as a Cu-Ni, or Aluminium-Bronze or any other metallic / bi-mettalic combo.
​BUT, this having been said, I am disappointed that this occurs so frequently throughout the catalogue and will, in future, point out the possible errors to the referees when I observe them.
​It took less than 10 minutes getting the 7 examples I listed in post one.
​I will make a point later of pointing these out to whichever referees regulate their specific entries.
​Thank you for being brave enough to accept and posting your answer.

Please keep in mind catalog is huge, so far there are registered 169,586 coins (types) at Numista, for 299 countries, it makes an average of 567 coins for each country; but most coins have several years and variants, so it is not ridiculous thinking of over half million of variations (I feel is must be much over 1 million); that would make over 1000 different year lines per country.

I am referee for 10 countries, but all from Latin America and Caribs, all of them are young countries, having coins for less than 500 years, in most cases 200 or less, so my average so far is 191 coins/country, by type.

So, again, I claim all help members can give to referees will be very appreciated, specially when it comes from people who are devoted to non common collection styles, so can contribute with hard-to-find data.

Regards, and all is OK so far.
There are 10 types of people, those who understand binary, and those who doesn't.

Catalog Referee for Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Puerto Rico
co-referee for Brazil, Curaçao, Cayman Islands, Netherlands West Indies, Saint Eustatius, Sint Maarten
brismike
Joined: 17-May-2015
Posts: 454
Quote: "bmnobbs"​To start ;- All 3 (6 versions) of the South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands 2006 £2 coins
​and
​2 Pounds 1997 - Elizabeth II 3rd portrait; Technology & 2 Pounds 1997- Elizabeth II Technology; Silver Proof
​or maybe better to show this this way :- (UK £1 coins)
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces1397.html & https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces62663.html
​or Australia $1 coins
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces74728.html & https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces75968.html
​or Alderney £1
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces60591.html & https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces12845.html
​Those $1 coins you mentioned as Australian Coins are not Australian, they are Cook Islands coins.

Regards Mike
Co-Referee for Australia - I Collect - Australia, UK & Dependancies, Some NZ, USA & Euros. I also have other World Coins that I swap.

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