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Armenia discussion - please vote.

7 posts • viewed 71 times

This message aims at: requesting the creation or the modification of a country in the catalog

Status: Rejected
Votes: 1
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Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 6770
Hello there!

We now have Armenia and Cilician Armenia split in the catalogue. There is also third issuer coming - Kingdom of Tashir-Dzoraget.

Would you be in favor in putting them together? While Armenia had somehow "fluid" history in terms of territorry, all these issuers are related, so I guess we could group them.

What do you think, yes or no?
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apuking
Joined: 31-Oct-2012
Posts: 5981
I would say no as the territories where completely different
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Coinman48
Joined: 16-Sep-2015
Posts: 466
I vote No. Keep the territories separate.

Will
Sulfur Numista team
Joined: 11-Jun-2016
Posts: 1687
I agree with the others so far: keep Cilician Armenia separate.

Armenia and Cilician Armenia are connected by "See also" links, which I think is good enough. I have encountered a couple people who just assumed Cilician Armenia was in Armenia because of the name, but geographically, this area was in southern Turkey. If we were to make Cilician Armenia a sub-section of Armenia, it may reinforce any possible confusion.

But this place does not have much to with Turkey aside location. It is a confusing issuer to place, I think.
Referee for the Avars, the Burgundians, Courland, Danish Estonia, Dorpat, Etruria, the Gepids, Gotland, the Herulians, Livonia, the Lombards, Narva, Ösel-Wiek, the Ostrogoths, Reval, Riga, and the Vandals; co-referee for Livoestonika.
January First-of-May
Joined: 10-Apr-2016
Posts: 738
Placing Cilician Armenia under Armenia would IMHO be completely incorrect, and shouldn't even really be considered.
Placing Cilician Armenia under Turkey... is possible, I guess, though the two states doesn't actually have much relation except geographically. IMHO the current separation is for the best.

As for Tashir-Dzoraget (can we just call it Kingdom of Lori?) - well, it might end up under Armenia, I guess; it's close enough. OTOH, the capital was in what is now Azerbaijan. I'm not really sure.
Then again, when the alternative is making it an essentially-impossible level 1 country (does any Numista member have coins from there?), placing it under Armenia is probably better.

We might need to add another Armenian issuer, incidentally - Dvin, City council of (coin 1, likely coin 2).
Jarcek Numista team
Joined: 22-Dec-2014
Posts: 6770
Ok, I think I heard enough, idea rejected.
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Status changed to Rejected (Jarcek, 15-Feb-2020, 10:40PM)
Sulfur Numista team
Joined: 11-Jun-2016
Posts: 1687
What about placing it under the Crusader states?

The area is geographically correct, and Cilician Armenia had strong ties with the Crusaders.

It also seems a few auction houses list Cilician Armenia along with the Crusaders:
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=cilician+armenia+crusader&category=1-2&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1&images=1&thesaurus=1&order=0&currency=usd&company=

And here is a screenshot from a page in the book called "Coins of the Crusaders":


(However, they do not go on to list the coins from Cilician Armenia.)

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And I would think to include Tashir-Dzoraget under regular Armenia. 0:)
Referee for the Avars, the Burgundians, Courland, Danish Estonia, Dorpat, Etruria, the Gepids, Gotland, the Herulians, Livonia, the Lombards, Narva, Ösel-Wiek, the Ostrogoths, Reval, Riga, and the Vandals; co-referee for Livoestonika.

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