ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 5587
Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 12:43
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Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 12:43
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Why do you think, should replacement botes have their own entries or just be a variety metioned in the year list?
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ceh2019
Joined: 4-Jan-2019
Posts: 2416
Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 13:36
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Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 13:36
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I'd definitely vote for putting them in the "year" list.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
BCNumismatics
Joined: 24-Jan-2009
Posts: 3020
Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 14:10
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Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 14:10
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Replacement & Specimen notes should be listed separately.
Aidan.
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 5587
Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 14:26
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Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 14:26
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I personally think that specimens can be listed seperately since they differ in their fearures (often overstamped and all 0's in serialnumber etc), but if replacements are listed seperately I believe that at least 50% of all owners will have the regular note since it's just the prefix letter(s) and/or a star in serial number that differs. Not everyone will see this if there's two listings (even if it says "replacement" in the title - as you can see on colnect). But this is just me, I just want to hear what you guys have to say about it too
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
Coinman48
Joined: 16-Sep-2015
Posts: 1036
Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 14:26
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Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 14:26
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I say in the year list like proofs and essays for coins.
Will
adanieluy
Joined: 2-Dec-2012
Posts: 1004
Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 15:48
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Edited: 14-Apr-2020, 15:50
Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 15:48
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Edited: 14-Apr-2020, 15:50
On my opinion, replacement and specimens are variations on the same note, cause replacements are to replace defective notes, and should not have other differences than the identification of what they are. Also specimens are just to show the notes, but they have no currency value (in spite usually they are more valuable than regular notes), and usually they have "00000..." serial number to show it, and also many times are overprinted "Specimen", "Muestra" or so. I think they should be listed all in same page, together with variants. I also suggest to add in comments there should be listed the differences making the variants (different signatures, watermarks, year of issue, etc.).
If there are significant variations, then they are patterns, trials, or something similar, and in such case should be listed separately.
Just 10 options: you understand binary, or you don't.
Catalog Referee Coins, Banknotes & Exonumia: Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Zamunda, Parva Domus and more.
Oklahoman
Numista team
Joined: 20-Dec-2015
Posts: 2957
Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 17:41
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Edited: 14-Apr-2020, 18:56
Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 17:41
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Edited: 14-Apr-2020, 18:56
In the year lists. That's how Pick and TBB list them as well. That's how I am approving them for the time being.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Ian P
Joined: 11-Mar-2020
Posts: 386
Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 23:52
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Posted: 14-Apr-2020, 23:52
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Replacement notes should be treated as Proof Coins in the Coin Database Listed alongside
of the Standard Issue as only the Number is of any significance to its value otherwise its exactly the Same Note.
Oklahoman
Numista team
Joined: 20-Dec-2015
Posts: 2957
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 00:29
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Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 00:29
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Replacements will be listed as a line on a main page. They will not have their own page for now.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 5587
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 00:44
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Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 00:44
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Quote: "Oklahoman"Replacements will be listed as a line on a main page. They will not have their own page for now.
I agree! Thanks.
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BCNumismatics
Joined: 24-Jan-2009
Posts: 3020
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 00:49
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Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 00:49
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Quote: "Oklahoman"Replacements will be listed as a line on a main page. They will not have their own page for now.
Eventually, they should, as we want to educate fellow collectors how to identify Replacement notes.
The same thing also applies with Specimen notes.
Of course, the letters 'R' & 'S' should be appended like this - 'P1R' & 'P1S' to distinguish them from 'P1', which is the catalogue number of a normal note type.
Aidan.
Coinman48
Joined: 16-Sep-2015
Posts: 1036
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 01:34
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Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 01:34
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Pick lists replacements as P1r1, P1r2, etc. (see Denmark P45) and lists specimens as P1s. I see no problem with doing that when listing Pick numbers.
Will
Oklahoman
Numista team
Joined: 20-Dec-2015
Posts: 2957
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 02:15
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Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 02:15
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Aiden is right. The line should have the designation of r and s to indicate its status as replacement or specimen.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
BCNumismatics
Joined: 24-Jan-2009
Posts: 3020
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 02:17
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Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 02:17
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Quote: "Coinman48"Pick lists replacements as P1r1, P1r2, etc. (see Denmark P45) and lists specimens as P1s. I see no problem with doing that when listing Pick numbers.
Will
Will, using a small 'r' creates confusion - as it should be for notes that exist as unissued remainders.
I prefer to use a capital 'R' for 'Replacement' & a capital 'S' for 'Specimen'.
Aidan.
Coinman48
Joined: 16-Sep-2015
Posts: 1036
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 15:21
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Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 15:21
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Aidan, I am far from an expert on banknotes and their cataloging and I have depended on the Pick system for my information. How can one tell they have unissued remainders and what is the authority for a small "r" to designate them? It makes sense to me to use the Pick system as most collectors will be using it and see no problem in having small "r" and "s" reserved for replacements and specimens. I don't see the need to designate unissued remainders and we certainly should not corrupt the system when designating "P#" before a number. It is unethical as well as probably illegal. The main issue is not "P# 1" but "P# 1a" when "r" and "s" are used with a number. If we are not going to use P numbers correctly, we should not designate them.
Will
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 5587
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 15:33
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Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 15:33
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Please be aware that it is not P# but P-. It is "pick 7" not "pick number 7", so no # sign should be used.
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Oklahoman
Numista team
Joined: 20-Dec-2015
Posts: 2957
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 16:01
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Edited: 15-Apr-2020, 16:03
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 16:01
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Edited: 15-Apr-2020, 16:03
Xavier's template creates a P# ## so It seems like P # or P-# or even the way I have done it for decades, P#111 is acceptable until a numista rule is in place.
Some websites even use a format that has no space, hyphen, or #.
As far as replacement notes and specimen notes, lower case is how the indications appear in general catalogs. Do they appear in specialized catalogs when referring to Pick Numbers?
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 5587
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 17:15
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Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 17:15
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Quote: "Oklahoman"Xavier's template creates a P# ## so It seems like P # or P-# or even the way I have done it for decades, P#111 is acceptable until a numista rule is in place.
P1, P-1, P 1 are all okay, but it's not P# - even though that is the standard for now (probably since all coin catalogues has # in their listings).
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Oklahoman
Numista team
Joined: 20-Dec-2015
Posts: 2957
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 18:08
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Edited: 15-Apr-2020, 19:01
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 18:08
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Edited: 15-Apr-2020, 19:01
I am curious why you think it is not the right way. It is every bit as valid as the others. Moreover it is the default. You seem awful adamant I am just curious for your basis.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Camerinvs
Joined: 19-May-2016
Posts: 5302
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 18:59
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Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 18:59
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Replacement notes should definitely be listed along with the regular notes. The only thing about them is that they have a symbol or letter (in Canada, a * or X) to indicate that they happened to replace a bunch of defective notes with the same serial numbers.
There are series for which there happens to have been no needs to print replacement notes, for example the 1954 Canadian series for the $50, $100, and $1000 denominations.
The authorities in charge don't plan to print replacement notes intentionally; they just do it when or if required.
On to something else: We obviously could add a number of banknote catalogues, for example:
Ch-CGPM = Charlton-Canadian Government Paper Money.
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ngdawa
Joined: 18-Oct-2011
Posts: 5587
Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 19:32
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Posted: 15-Apr-2020, 19:32
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Quote: "Oklahoman"I am curious why you think it is not the right way. It is every bit as valid as the others. Moreover it is the default. You seem awful adamant I am just curious for your basis.
Sorry mate!
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