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Banknote Cashier/signature

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This message aims at: suggesting an idea to improve Numista

Status: Implemented
Upvotes: 6
Downvotes: 0

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Add the cashier/signature of the banknote to the overall information so that varieties of banknotes can be identified.
Quote: "peterjhalford"​Add the cashier/signature of the banknote to the overall information so that varieties of banknotes can be identified.
​I think this is meant to go in the comments. See https://en.numista.com/catalogue/note201573.html
It's fine to be in comments area but a picture with the actual signatures should be provided also.
Problem is you could end up with lots of photographs on each entry...
Why not one picture for all signatures? Something like this:
Status changed to Accepted (Xavier, 15-Apr-2020, 09:53PM)
Quote: "Andy289"​Why not one picture for all signatures? Something like this:

I think T.B.B. also lists the names & terms of office where they are known.

Aidan.
It was just an example, you can add as much information you want.
Hello,

There is now a dedicated field to document signature.

See this Swiss banknote for example: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/note201562.html
  • The list of possible signatures is shown below the obverse, reverse and watermark descriptions, with the full name, the title and the picture of the signature
  • The initials of the signatures are shown on each variety line

Signatures are added on the banknote modification page, in the list of varieties. You can only add signatures which are pre-registered. Only a dozen of Swiss signatures are registered for the moment. You can request to add more signatures by opening a ticket to request the addition of a signature on the banknote catalogue forum section.
When opening such a request, you can provide the name, the title (in French and English), the dates of office, the picture of the signature, and the Wikidata ID (e.g. Q78064218 for Max Iklé - https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q78064218).
Status changed to Implemented (Xavier, 10-May-2020, 10:28PM)
Quote: "Xavier"You can request to add more signatures by opening a ticket to request the addition of a signature on the banknote catalogue forum section.
​When opening such a request, you can provide the name, the title (in French and English), the dates of office, the picture of the signature, and the Wikidata ID (e.g. Q78064218 for Max Iklé - https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q78064218).
​Is it becessary to have all of those, or can we start with names and maybe years, and add pictures if signatures later? Will they be added like tags, or we need to add them in the right combinations?
Coin referee for: American Samoa, Azerbaijan, Faroe Islands, Greenland, Hawaii, Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Marshall Islands, Myanmar, North Korea, Pitcairn, Turks & Caicos Islands, Uzbekistan, Samoa, Somaliland, Tannu Tuva, Taiwan, Tajikistan
Only the name and the country are mandatory. The rest is optional, with the title and the picture being recommend, while dates and Wikidata ID are just nice to have. We can still add them later.

You will build the combinations by adding the individual signatures to the years/varieties lines.
Quote: "Xavier"​Only the name and the country are mandatory. The rest is optional, with the title and the picture being recommend, while dates and Wikidata ID are just nice to have. We can still add them later.

​You will build the combinations by adding the individual signatures to the years/varieties lines.

Xavier, it is a bit hard to identify the signatories in most chapters of the Pick catalogues - as no signature charts are provided in most chapters.

The Banknote Book by Owen Linzmayer of http://www.banknotenews.com is in the process of rectifying this.

Aidan.
@Xavier what about the signatories that held different titles? When we make the list should we add multiple lines with the same and different titles?
I don't reckon it's necessary to know if it's the president's or the cashier's signature. Only the signature itself is relevant.
Coin referee for: American Samoa, Azerbaijan, Faroe Islands, Greenland, Hawaii, Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Marshall Islands, Myanmar, North Korea, Pitcairn, Turks & Caicos Islands, Uzbekistan, Samoa, Somaliland, Tannu Tuva, Taiwan, Tajikistan
Quote: "Andy289"​@Xavier what about the signatories that held different titles? When we make the list should we add multiple lines with the same and different titles?
Yes please!
Also a separate entry if the signature changed would help.
Best
:wiz:
Quote: "ngdawa"​I don't reckon it's necessary to know if it's the president's or the cashier's signature. Only the signature itself is relevant.
​I agree but as you can see the title will be an optional field so we have to deal with those who held multiple titles somehow.

EDIT: also there are some titles that would be tricky to be translated from native language to english or other language 8~
Quote: "Andy289"​also there are some titles that would be tricky to be translated from native language to english or other language 8~
​This is also my main concern.
Coin referee for: American Samoa, Azerbaijan, Faroe Islands, Greenland, Hawaii, Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Mali, Marshall Islands, Myanmar, North Korea, Pitcairn, Turks & Caicos Islands, Uzbekistan, Samoa, Somaliland, Tannu Tuva, Taiwan, Tajikistan
I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble finding where to send the signatures respecting the list of information suggested by Xavier. Is there a specific page for this?
Wilson Roberto Vasques Nunes.
Banknote catalog referee for Brazil.
Quote: "wilsonrvnunes"​I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble finding where to send the signatures respecting the list of information suggested by Xavier. Is there a specific page for this?
​Just open a new thread in the Referees forum and mark the tickbox "Request about signatures on banknotes"
Best
:wiz:
Hello!
Before I spend a long time using this tool, please check if it is possible to exchange the necessary information through this link.
Thank you.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fv6XNwYc_vhZf6ovnfeJ2diBBkMZXONcQ1YtZfk90pA/edit?usp=sharing
Wilson Roberto Vasques Nunes.
Banknote catalog referee for Brazil.
Quote: "wilsonrvnunes"​Hello!
​Before I spend a long time using this tool, please check if it is possible to exchange the necessary information through this link.
​Thank you.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fv6XNwYc_vhZf6ovnfeJ2diBBkMZXONcQ1YtZfk90pA/edit?usp=sharing
​It looks good,

Can you keep the photos in a folder on the drive please? And just name them like the person (or in any reasonable distinguishable way)?
And the dates can be just years. We don't have day-month-year format.

Thank you
:wiz:
Quote: "stratocaster"
Quote: "wilsonrvnunes"​Hello!
​​Before I spend a long time using this tool, please check if it is possible to exchange the necessary information through this link.
​​Thank you.
​​https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fv6XNwYc_vhZf6ovnfeJ2diBBkMZXONcQ1YtZfk90pA/edit?usp=sharing
​​It looks good,

​Can you keep the photos in a folder on the drive please? And just name them like the person (or in any reasonable distinguishable way)?
​And the dates can be just years. We don't have day-month-year format.

​Thank you
:wiz:
​My English is not the best and google doesn't always get it right. lol
Do you mean not to send the signature images in this spreadsheet and, instead, leave the ".jpg" files in a separate shared folder, with each signature named with the full name of the holder?
Wilson Roberto Vasques Nunes.
Banknote catalog referee for Brazil.
I can send you the complete list of all signatories of romanian banknotes if helps and I can add the pictures with their signatures on the fly since it's a tremendous work to process so many images.
Quote: "stratocaster"
Quote: "wilsonrvnunes"​Hello!
​​Before I spend a long time using this tool, please check if it is possible to exchange the necessary information through this link.
​​Thank you.
​​https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fv6XNwYc_vhZf6ovnfeJ2diBBkMZXONcQ1YtZfk90pA/edit?usp=sharing
​​It looks good,

​Can you keep the photos in a folder on the drive please? And just name them like the person (or in any reasonable distinguishable way)?
​And the dates can be just years. We don't have day-month-year format.

​Thank you
:wiz:
Check if this resolves. Please.​
Signatures
Wilson Roberto Vasques Nunes.
Banknote catalog referee for Brazil.
Quote: "wilsonrvnunes"
Quote: "stratocaster"

Quote: "wilsonrvnunes"​Hello!
​​​Before I spend a long time using this tool, please check if it is possible to exchange the necessary information through this link.
​​​Thank you.
​​​https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fv6XNwYc_vhZf6ovnfeJ2diBBkMZXONcQ1YtZfk90pA/edit?usp=sharing
​​​It looks good,
​​
​​Can you keep the photos in a folder on the drive please? And just name them like the person (or in any reasonable distinguishable way)?
​​And the dates can be just years. We don't have day-month-year format.
​​
​​Thank you
​​:wiz:
​​My English is not the best and google doesn't always get it right. lol
​Do you mean not to send the signature images in this spreadsheet and, instead, leave the ".jpg" files in a separate shared folder, with each signature named with the full name of the holder?
​Yep, exactly right! Full name of the holder would work!
Thank you!

Edit: Latest doc looks great! thanks
Quote: "stratocaster"
Quote: "wilsonrvnunes"

Quote: "stratocaster"
​​

Quote: "wilsonrvnunes"​Hello!
​​​​Before I spend a long time using this tool, please check if it is possible to exchange the necessary information through this link.
​​​​Thank you.
​​​​https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fv6XNwYc_vhZf6ovnfeJ2diBBkMZXONcQ1YtZfk90pA/edit?usp=sharing
​​​​It looks good,
​​​
​​​Can you keep the photos in a folder on the drive please? And just name them like the person (or in any reasonable distinguishable way)?
​​​And the dates can be just years. We don't have day-month-year format.
​​​
​​​Thank you
​​​:wiz:
​​​My English is not the best and google doesn't always get it right. lol
​​Do you mean not to send the signature images in this spreadsheet and, instead, leave the ".jpg" files in a separate shared folder, with each signature named with the full name of the holder?
​​Yep, exactly right! Full name of the holder would work!
​Thank you!
​Are you going to take care of this case in Brazil?
As the spreadsheet and folder are shared with you, I will include new holders as I create or review new pages of Brazilian bank notes.
List of names, positions etc.
Signatures
Wilson Roberto Vasques Nunes.
Banknote catalog referee for Brazil.
Sure, I can upload them! I just prefer to do them all at once, it's easier to keep track. So just let me know when you have a full list.

By the way this is a good resource:
http://www.moneypedia.de/index.php/Signatur:_Brasilien

they also have other countries:
http://www.moneypedia.de/index.php/Signaturen

Thank you
:wiz:
Quote: "stratocaster"​Sure, I can upload them! I just prefer to do them all at once, it's easier to keep track. So just let me know when you have a full list.

​By the way this is a good resource:
http://www.moneypedia.de/index.php/Signatur:_Brasilien

​they also have other countries:
http://www.moneypedia.de/index.php/Signaturen

​Thank you
:wiz:
​Thank you for sharing the site with the subscriptions and forwarding it to the person responsible for uploading them to the site.
After all, who will be responsible for this activity with regard to Brazil?
Having a complete list can take a little longer. For this reason, I believe it is better to do it as I add new notes. Distributing the work over time will make it less boring.
Wilson Roberto Vasques Nunes.
Banknote catalog referee for Brazil.
Any admin can upload them: that would be Xavier, Jarcek, pejounet or myself.

I completely understand it can be boring. For me, it's easier if I do bigger batches, let's say around 20. Would this work? Otherwise just let me know when you want to take a break and I can also upload just a few, it's not a problem.

Best
:wiz:
Quote: "stratocaster"​Any admin can upload them: that would be Xavier, Jarcek, pejounet or myself.

​I completely understand it can be boring. For me, it's easier if I do bigger batches, let's say around 20. Would this work? Otherwise just let me know when you want to take a break and I can also upload just a few, it's not a problem.

​Best
:wiz:
​In order not to be bad for you or me, let us do it like this: I will warn you about every monetary standard. Is it good for the friend too?
Wilson Roberto Vasques Nunes.
Banknote catalog referee for Brazil.
sure, sounds good!
Where terms of office are known, they should also be indicated as well.

Often, undated notes can be dated to the length of the term of office for the signatory ( or signatories) .

Aidan.
Quote: "BCNumismatics"​Where terms of office are known, they should also be indicated as well.

​Often, undated notes can be dated to the length of the term of office for the signatory ( or signatories) .

​Aidan.
​Really?? Ok, let's suppose you're unable to identify a banknote by its features and you have to look at the signatories. The signature by itself isn't enough? Give me please a single example when you need the terms of office to clearly identify a banknote.
Quote: "Andy289"
Quote: "BCNumismatics"​Where terms of office are known, they should also be indicated as well.
​​
​​Often, undated notes can be dated to the length of the term of office for the signatory ( or signatories) .
​​
​​Aidan.
​​Really?? Ok, let's suppose you're unable to identify a banknote by its features and you have to look at the signatories. The signature by itself isn't enough? Give me please a single example when you need the terms of office to clearly identify a banknote.


South African decimal notes are not dated, except for the 2018 Nelson Mandela Birth Centenary notes.

The Rand notes with M.H. de Kock's signature are the 1961 issue, even though this is not stated on the notes.

M.H. de Kock was Governor of the South African Reserve Bank from 1945 to 1962, when Gerhard Rissik replaced him.

Gerhard de Kock's signature notes are from 1981-89 - which was his time in office, when he died, & C.L. Stals replaced him.

C.L. Stals's first notes are the 1990 issue.

Aidan.

Aidan.
I still don't get the point how this information helps. When you add a note on Numista you use a catalog or something you don't stare first at the signature, because you didn't guessed that M.H. de Kock was Governor of the South African Reserve Bank from 1945 to 1962, it's an information available. For example I can tell you precisely that every Romanian note signed by Israescu has been issued after 1990 but I won't start to identify a banknote starting from signature but from the information already available in catalogs and so on. That was my point, maybe I don't understand well enough your point and your reasons are solid. :`
Quote: "stratocaster"​sure, sounds good!
​Hello!
I thought better of it and decided to accept your suggestion.
Therefore, follow the links in the spreadsheet and folder with the files with all signatures of Brazilian bank notes.
There are five holders who do not have a Wikidata ID. I left it marked with a question mark (?).
Spreadsheet with data of the holders
Signatures

As soon as they go up, please inform me to provide these items in the variant lists.
Wilson Roberto Vasques Nunes.
Banknote catalog referee for Brazil.
Quote: "Andy289"​I still don't get the point how this information helps. When you add a note on Numista you use a catalog or something you don't stare first at the signature, because you didn't guessed that M.H. de Kock was Governor of the South African Reserve Bank from 1945 to 1962, it's an information available. For example I can tell you precisely that every Romanian note signed by Israescu has been issued after 1990 but I won't start to identify a banknote starting from signature but from the information already available in catalogs and so on. That was my point, maybe I don't understand well enough your point and your reasons are solid. :`

Andy, Romanian notes bear dates - which the South African decimal notes don't.

Pre-decimal notes from South Africa bear dates.

I always look at the signature first to check to see if it is a type I do or don't have - as sometimes, a type I don't have can come my way unexpectedly.

Signature charts in The Banknote Book are very handy - as Owen Linzmayer also indicates the signatories' terms of office where they are known, which is sadly lacking in Pick in most cases.

Aidan.
Hi,
I would like to volunteer for this project for the banknotes from India, Republic of (1950-TD). I'm currently preparing for UG (College) entrance exams. So it will be a good refreshment during the breaks and free-times to work on this project by compiling such a database of signatures, dates and issuing bank.
Please do let me know if and when you start this project for India, Republic of.
regards,
Soubhik Chatterjee.

Edit:
1. Thanks to BCNumismatics for pointing out the error regaring the date of establishment of Indian Republic. Appreciate it.
2. I am voluntaring for compiling not just India- Republic, but also India- Portuguese, India- French, & India- British. Check out this thread. Let's see how my collection and sourcing can be of use here.
Numismatics is the window to the history of the human civilisation. An unidentified coin is a lump of matter. An identified coin is a piece of human history, a narator to the story of humanity.
Soubhik,
The Republic of India was established on 26 January 1950.

Aidan.
I have started to compile a list of signatures from United States notes. It takes a bit as I am getting the signatures from my own notes. Is anyone else working in these? I don't want to duplicate work.

Also, how do you "extract" the signature from the picture?

Mine look like this and I see others that are just the signature removed from the picture. Is there a program I can get to do this?
Quote: "worth"​Also, how do you "extract" the signature from the picture?
​Mine look like this and I see others that are just the signature removed from the picture. Is there a program I can get to do this?

​These kind of signatures with a simple background are very easy just turn it into a black and white picture then use a sharpening algorithm (I used PhotoScape for this one).


The problems come with complex backgrounds which need sometimes quite a lot of manual corrections which I would not be willing to do more then a couple of times.


P.S. the higher the quality of the source picture the higher the end result
Thank you Idolenz. I will see what I can do this evening.

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