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Spain 1850 1/2 real

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g00n
Joined: 25-Nov-2014
Posts: 329
Hi all,

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces18439.html

The page for this coin lists 3 KM numbers, 591.1, 591.2, 591.3, but doesn't say how to distinguish between them. Looking at NGC, I figured KM 591.3 is the one with the aqueduct mintmark, like mine.

But mine also has another mark to the left of the laureate crown on the reverse. Haven't been able to find that in any images of the coin, so anyone know what that is?





klei92
Joined: 25-Dec-2018
Posts: 314
The page does tell you how to distinguish the different KM's (look "Comments" section on that page)

And about the mark, sorry dude that (R) means that its a Replica
Se queres ca muller che queira, ten diñeiro na carteira
harryg
Joined: 26-Mar-2018
Posts: 672
Quote: "klei92"

​And about the mark, sorry dude that (R) means that its a Replica
​Is it possible it is a countermark?
g00n
Joined: 25-Nov-2014
Posts: 329
Quote: "klei92"​The page does tell you how to distinguish the different KM's (look "Comments" section on that page)

​And about the mark, sorry dude that (R) means that its a Replica
​Unless I'm not seeing it, the comments only tell me the different mints, not how to tell one from the others?

Too bad if it's a replica though, but thanks!
klei92
Joined: 25-Dec-2018
Posts: 314
Quote: "harryg"
Quote: "klei92"
​​
​​And about the mark, sorry dude that (R) means that its a Replica
​​Is it possible it is a countermark?
​I would say 99% that its replica because in one hand I have already saw too many and also in hand, they shout "i am a replica", the materials not always match and the texture its simply not good... more could be said

I have one replica example back at home and have the same coin but original (safuly not at home)... I will post if you want post of the fake one and you can try to compare it to an original one
Se queres ca muller che queira, ten diñeiro na carteira
klei92
Joined: 25-Dec-2018
Posts: 314
Quote: "g00n"
Quote: "klei92"​The page does tell you how to distinguish the different KM's (look "Comments" section on that page)
​​
​​And about the mark, sorry dude that (R) means that its a Replica
​​Unless I'm not seeing it, the comments only tell me the different mints, not how to tell one from the others?

​Too bad if it's a replica though, but thanks!
​(sorry I dont know how to multiquote)

I know its a bit complicated

For each mint they gave a different Km. In your case the mint is Segovia (you can see the mint simbol, an acueduct, over the date). So yours is KM591.3

So you need to fin the year (1850) and the line with the Segovia mint (the second one for 1850)

I hope I was clearer this time
Se queres ca muller che queira, ten diñeiro na carteira
g00n
Joined: 25-Nov-2014
Posts: 329
Quote: "klei"​​(sorry I dont know how to multiquote)

​I know its a bit complicated

​For each mint they gave a different Km. In your case the mint is Segovia (you can see the mint simbol, an acueduct, over the date). So yours is KM591.3

​So you need to fin the year (1850) and the line with the Segovia mint (the second one for 1850)

​I hope I was clearer this time
​Yeah, but I can't see anywhere where they tell me that the aqueduct is the mintmark for Segovia - I only knew this because NGC lists the aqueduct mintmark as KM 591.3 🙂
luca biondi
Joined: 23-Sep-2017
Posts: 328
http://casamonedasegovia.es/museo/el-acueducto-marca-de-ceca/?lang=en
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 4020
Straight out of SCWC



Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
g00n
Joined: 25-Nov-2014
Posts: 329
Quote: "Sjoelund"​Straight out of SCWC



​Ole
​Excellent - those notes about mintmarks should be in the comments for this coin 👍
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 4020
They will be a bit later. For the moment I'm waiting on information from Spanish swap friends (catalog images and texts). With a bit of luck next week can be the target.

BUT I'm seeing a problem in the scwc... I have checked the internet for images of the coins. They have only 6 pointed stars on all the years!!
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
klei92
Joined: 25-Dec-2018
Posts: 314
I remember the thing about the stars but with other coins.

For this one the thing is:

Segovia = simbol of an acueduct (the one that is in Segovia)
Juvia = J(uvia)
Madrid = M(adrid)
Se queres ca muller che queira, ten diñeiro na carteira
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 4020
Here is the answer from Spain:

591.1 Es la mas corriente, ceca de Madrid "M"
591.2 ceca de Segovia "acueducto" Es la más rara.
591.3 ceca de Madrid con la marca DG Departamento de Grabado.

Lo he consultado en el catalogo Cayon pero no hay más información.


Translation:

591.1 is the common coin with the Madrid "M" mintmark
591.2 is the rarest of the 3 with Segovia "aquaduct" mintmark
591.3 minted in Madrid with the DG "Departemento de Grabado" mintmark.

I have consulted the Cayon catalog, but found no more information


end of translation!

As you see, no mention of stars, but now I have enough to set up a documentation, if I can get hold of images of the 3 coins, which I'm sure I can.

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
klei92
Joined: 25-Dec-2018
Posts: 314
Just readed an article by Gleen Murray (Los cobres segovianos de Isabel II, pp.224) and he states that for Madrid were made examples with D.G. and also with the M plus I have a link about coins of Isabel II and there is a photo of one of this Medio Real with the M(adrid) https://www.numismaticodigital.com/noticia/9481/articulos-numismatica/isabel-ii-y-sus-diferentes-marcas-de-ceca.html

Get hold of the M example too ;)
Se queres ca muller che queira, ten diñeiro na carteira
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 4020
So I think I have everything together in this documentation.



I have made a change request accordingly.

Thanks for all your help.

Ole
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Sjoelund
Joined: 28-Mar-2012
Posts: 4020
and here is another message from my Spanish friend.

La moneda de la foto es una replica, son frecuentes en España y se identifican de esa manera con una "R" dentro de un circulo, solían repartirlas con los periodicos.

Translation:

The coin in the image is a replica. They are "normal" in Spain, but nicely marked with an "R" inside a circle. They used to distribute with newspapers.

So everything is solved by now.
Globetrotter
Coin variants in English:
https://sites.google.com/site/coinvarietiescollection/home
In French on Cobra's site (not the same)
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com

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