Scotland Ruling Authorities Addition [solved]

Could you please add these two ruling authorities to Scotland? Both are king consorts of Mary Queen of Scots and are depicted and named on Scottish coins. 

Francis (1558-1560) - King Consort 

Francis would rule as King Francis II of France from 1559 to 1560, but  it'd be best to leave the regnal number off of the Scottish page as it doesn't apply in Scotland. Would it be possible to link the Scottish ‘Francis’ ruling authority to the French ‘Francis II’ ruling authority: Search the coin catalogue – Numista ? Like how the Scottish ‘James VI’ and English/Irish ‘James I’ authorities are linked: Search the coin catalogue – Numista 

Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley (1565-1567) - King Consort

King Consorts shouldn't be included, as they were not ruling monarchs in Scotland.

Aidan.

BCNumismatics

King Consorts shouldn't be included, as they were not ruling monarchs in Scotland.

Both of these men did rule in Scotland. Francis, on account of his age, did not exercise personal power in Scotland. Instead, Queen Mary of Guise ruled as regent on behalf of her daughter and son-in-law. He is named on all of the coins issued during his marriage to Mary and is depicted on one of them. His name is placed before Mary's name in the legends, thereby symbolising that he was the senior monarch. 

Here are some examples: 1 Ducat - Francis and Mary (2nd Period) - Scotland – Numista   

½ Testoon - Francis and Mary (2nd Period, Type II) - Scotland – Numista 

Henry Darnley controversially ruled as king alongside Mary. This controversy plays out on the coinage itself, with Henry initially being named first on Mary's coins: 1 Ryal - Mary and Henry Darnley (4th Period, Type I) - Scotland – Numista  This was soon replaced by a coin that placed his name second: 1 Ryal - Mary and Henry Darnley (4th Period, Type II) - Scotland – Numista There is also a 1566 dated palm tree ryal that names Henry first, but the two surviving specimens are of questionable authenticity. 

The catalogue guidelines state: ‘Add junior rulers or consorts of senior rulers, only if they are depicted on the coin.’ Therefore, shouldn't both men be listed as Scottish ruling authorities? Their inclusion would also provide a convenient way of searching for the coins of Mary that feature them. 

BCNumismatics

King Consorts shouldn't be included, as they were not ruling monarchs in Scotland.

 

Aidan.

I disagree, our purpose here is not simplified political history per se, but numismatic coherence.  As long as people presented as rulers are on the coins, we should reference and dynasticize them imo.

For the similar situation in England, we have a separate ruling authority for “Mary I, Philip II of Spain (1554-1558)”. Perhaps Scotland needs something like this?

ceh2019

For the similar situation in England, we have a separate ruling authority for “Mary I, Philip II of Spain (1554-1558)”. Perhaps Scotland needs something like this?

That could be one way of doing it. Or a separate ruling authority page could be created for each of the two consorts that appear on her coins, as is done with this Roman coin: Antoninianus - Cornelia Supera (IVNONI AVG; Juno) - Roman Empire – Numista. If the first option was to be chosen then Mary Queen of Scot's reign would have to be split into the following Ruling authorities to reflect how her changing marital status is displayed on her coins: 

Mary I (1542-1558)

Francis and Mary (1558-1560)

Mary I (1560-1565)

Mary and Henry Darnley (1565-1567)

Mary I (1567)

Admittedly, I'm not sure on the best way of going about it. Perhaps the admins will know? 

cmaclean

BCNumismatics

King Consorts shouldn't be included, as they were not ruling monarchs in Scotland.

Both of these men did rule in Scotland. Francis, on account of his age, did not exercise personal power in Scotland. Instead, Queen Mary of Guise ruled as regent on behalf of her daughter and son-in-law. He is named on all of the coins issued during his marriage to Mary and is depicted on one of them. His name is placed before Mary's name in the legends, thereby symbolising that he was the senior monarch. 

 

Here are some examples: 1 Ducat - Francis and Mary (2nd Period) - Scotland – Numista   

½ Testoon - Francis and Mary (2nd Period, Type II) - Scotland – Numista 

 

Henry Darnley controversially ruled as king alongside Mary. This controversy plays out on the coinage itself, with Henry initially being named first on Mary's coins: 1 Ryal - Mary and Henry Darnley (4th Period, Type I) - Scotland – Numista  This was soon replaced by a coin that placed his name second: 1 Ryal - Mary and Henry Darnley (4th Period, Type II) - Scotland – Numista There is also a 1566 dated palm tree ryal that names Henry first, but the two surviving specimens are of questionable authenticity. 

 

The catalogue guidelines state: ‘Add junior rulers or consorts of senior rulers, only if they are depicted on the coin.’ Therefore, shouldn't both men be listed as Scottish ruling authorities? Their inclusion would also provide a convenient way of searching for the coins of Mary that feature them. 

There are British coins that depict Prince Philip jointly with the Queen, but he wasn't a reigning monarch though.

Aidan.

BCNumismatics

cmaclean

BCNumismatics

King Consorts shouldn't be included, as they were not ruling monarchs in Scotland.

Both of these men did rule in Scotland. Francis, on account of his age, did not exercise personal power in Scotland. Instead, Queen Mary of Guise ruled as regent on behalf of her daughter and son-in-law. He is named on all of the coins issued during his marriage to Mary and is depicted on one of them. His name is placed before Mary's name in the legends, thereby symbolising that he was the senior monarch. 

 

Here are some examples: 1 Ducat - Francis and Mary (2nd Period) - Scotland – Numista   

½ Testoon - Francis and Mary (2nd Period, Type II) - Scotland – Numista 

 

Henry Darnley controversially ruled as king alongside Mary. This controversy plays out on the coinage itself, with Henry initially being named first on Mary's coins: 1 Ryal - Mary and Henry Darnley (4th Period, Type I) - Scotland – Numista  This was soon replaced by a coin that placed his name second: 1 Ryal - Mary and Henry Darnley (4th Period, Type II) - Scotland – Numista There is also a 1566 dated palm tree ryal that names Henry first, but the two surviving specimens are of questionable authenticity. 

 

The catalogue guidelines state: ‘Add junior rulers or consorts of senior rulers, only if they are depicted on the coin.’ Therefore, shouldn't both men be listed as Scottish ruling authorities? Their inclusion would also provide a convenient way of searching for the coins of Mary that feature them. 

 

There are British coins that depict Prince Philip jointly with the Queen, but he wasn't a reigning monarch though.

 

Aidan.

Those are commemorative and not circulating, not at all the same to me

It is done, they are both added. We do not have precise king-consort as a title yet, so they are both marked as kings.

Also Francis is linked to France - this is done by linking them through wikidata.

Jarcek

It is done, they are both added. We do not have precise king-consort as a title yet, so they are both marked as kings.

 

Also Francis is linked to France - this is done by linking them through wikidata.

Portugal also had King-Consorts as well.

Not sure about Spain or any other European countries (except France) though.

Aidan.

Jarcek

It is done, they are both added. We do not have precise king-consort as a title yet, so they are both marked as kings.

 

Also Francis is linked to France - this is done by linking them through wikidata.

Thanks a lot. Would it be possible to unlink Mary I of Scotland and Mary I of England/Ireland, they are two separate people. When you click on the Mary I link: Search the coin catalogue – Numista you are shown coins of the two Queen Marys. 

Disconnected the Marys :)

King William II of Scotland & King William III of England was the same person.

Queen Mary II of England was also Queen Mary II of Scotland as well.

Aidan.

Jarcek

Disconnected the Marys :)

Thanks a lot. 

BCNumismatics

King William II of Scotland & King William III of England was the same person.

 

Queen Mary II of England was also Queen Mary II of Scotland as well.

 

Aidan.

They are both linked together. As are James II of England/Ireland and James VII of Scotland. 

cmaclean

BCNumismatics

King William II of Scotland & King William III of England was the same person.

 

Queen Mary II of England was also Queen Mary II of Scotland as well.

 

Aidan.

They are both linked together. As are James II of England/Ireland and James VII of Scotland. 

Don't forget about King James VI of Scotland who was also King James I of England as well.

Aidan.

BCNumismatics

 

Don't forget about King James VI of Scotland who was also King James I of England as well.

 

Aidan.

They're also linked.