Avoid Paying Customs when swaping

Hello.

I live in Israel, from the US.   I started swaping coins, “what an amazing option”.    When sending coins I often find that they are held in process a bit.  Sometimes longer.   Is there any correct way to write down the contents of the package?  Numismatics?  Coins?  Trade coins?   Anything help along the process?

Ari

Hobby medals.

you can write what you want but never add value to the package , if you write hobby and add 50$ value the custom will charge taxes for that 50$ . For example i receive 2 packages from Canada one without value (cost 2 euro taxes) and one with value added on the package (cost 2 euro taxes  + 13 euro value of the package)

Thanks. Open to all ideas.

Be aware that sometimes there are problems with sending the coins by mail.

I declare what is inside the envelope thrift shop item.

Unfortunately, if I also say that it is a gift, I am obliged to add a non-zero value. 

I use “hobby material”

Thx All

Also, if you send coins in regular letter envelopes, usually just with stamps, but without tracking number, they don't go through the customs to my understanding. I always send it that way internationally from the US, and not a single time they were held in customs and nobody paid anything for them, and there is no declaration paperwork or anything. They even arrive faster usually because of that.

The main disadvantages are that they are without tracking and if you want to send a larger swap, you will have to use multiple envelopes.

Since each country has its own crazy laws and requirements, I usually ask my swap partner what wording to use/not to use on declaration.

AJL

Hello.

I live in Israel, from the US.   I started swaping coins, “what an amazing option”.    When sending coins I often find that they are held in process a bit.  Sometimes longer.   Is there any correct way to write down the contents of the package?  Numismatics?  Coins?  Trade coins?   Anything help along the process?

Ari

Hi

It depends on which country  you send coins to.  Every country has free limits . In EU you need to declare as Gift with value upto  a certain amount . However  in many EU countries, the postal authorities are lazy and still charge duty and te partner may not want to contest .  In US-  registered letters from Israel are not tracked and often get sent back by USPS as recipient not  found.  India   the  declared value should be less than 750 INR . CN22 declaration is a must as otherwise it will get held for a long time as they will open it 

Hi all,

This is sort of related to this thread but it's a non-postal question.

Would there be problems taking bags of coins for people travelling from one country to another?

The Euro zone I do not think would be a problem but what if somebody from the Euro zone came to the UK would they have trouble with customs & taxes?

In the EU and probably many other places you have to declare cash above 10 000 € when moving country borders.

As far as I remember you are not allowed to take Moroccan cash outside the country (probably in North Korea to and I don't mean those papers they print to sell to the outside as N. Korean Money).

Would there be problems taking bags of coins for people travelling from one country to another?

The Euro zone I do not think would be a problem but what if somebody from the Euro zone came to the UK would they have trouble with customs & taxes?

I often carry bags of coins with me when I travel. By “bags" I mean hundreds of coins like euro, UK pound,  Canada dollars, Swiss francs etc. The bags often weigh 5 or 10 kilo! These are from bulk lots of world coins I buy at auction to sort and spend, or many that I've rec'd in trade here on Numista. And in Egypt, Cuba, Spain and other countries I “exchanged” hundreds of dollars worth of foreign coins that the locals get in tips but cant use. I then carry the coins back to Ireland or the US etc to spend on future travels. I always get stopped at airport security as they do a hand search of the bags, but I've never been stopped or told to declare the coins. I look forward to reading experiences from others here.

Thanks !  Good point.

TCon

Would there be problems taking bags of coins for people travelling from one country to another?

The Euro zone I do not think would be a problem but what if somebody from the Euro zone came to the UK would they have trouble with customs & taxes?

I often carry bags of coins with me when I travel. By “bags" I mean hundreds of coins like euro, UK pound,  Canada dollars, Swiss francs etc. The bags often weigh 5 or 10 kilo! These are from bulk lots of world coins I buy at auction to sort and spend, or many that I've rec'd in trade here on Numista. And in Egypt, Cuba, Spain and other countries I “exchanged” hundreds of dollars worth of foreign coins that the locals get in tips but cant use. I then carry the coins back to Ireland or the US etc to spend on future travels. I always get stopped at airport security as they do a hand search of the bags, but I've never been stopped or told to declare the coins. I look forward to reading experiences from others here.

I was stopped at O'Hare and coins searched. Then the officer got bored and asked if they were Indian coins and not US , I said yes and she let me go. Actually these were LATAM coins . In India - if you have bad luck you will be asked to pay duty unless you can successfully argue these  are legal tender coins and allowed under $10000 currency entry rule . Once they harassed someone claiming   a native Indian dollar coin is Gold  and  as 18xx- 20xx  date was written in a coin , customs claimed its an antique.. Thats the kind of silly people  you may encounter in customs (even in Zurich airport customs  this has happened )   Same in many others. Also they add to your cabin bag weigh as in checked in  Heathrow, CDG , Rome  and many other countries  , if scanners detect coins they may  rip apart your bag and then declare it lost . I worked in surveillance and there are many loop holes to avoid getting caught on camera. Cabin bag allowance is usually only 7 to 8 kg .. Otherwise I have bags of pennies, cents, quarters and dimes at my Indian address

I always write “metal samples”.

I had my first experience at the post office trying to ship my first swap,  I over packed I put each coin in a 2x2, then the 2x2 in a small ziplock baggy and then put a strip of thin cardboard on each side and taped it flat and put it in a manila envelope, it was a few mm to thick and they wanted to send it as a parcel with customs declaration, I filled out the paperwork and put  “collectable coin”  and a value of 1 usd.   The cost to ship 4 quarters was going to be about 30 USD.   I did not go through with this. 

The guy behind the counter,  grabbed another envelope and we re-taped the coins to one of the strips of cardboard and re-enveloped it and slapped 2 stamps on it.  I paid a 50 cent do not machine surcharge and he tossed the customs paperwork in the garbage can.    The cost to ship this way was about 5 USD with the cost of the new envelope. 

But I did learn a lot and I think going forward I'll use thin cardboard envelopes and ship no more than 2 or 3 coins per envelope and use forever stamps. 

I'm just anxiously waiting to hear that the envelope made it to it's destination in one piece. 

 

in these day, sending coins from bangladesh is very problematic, nowadays i just send 10-12 coins in each letter, our postal service is cheap, like 150 gram 3-5 dollar to eu-us. but receiving is okay, if customs suspect , i have to pay tax like 800- 1000 taka.

ngdawa

I always write “metal samples”.

Easiest way to arouse customs interest- Metal samples could be restricted material

shamikb

ngdawa

I always write “metal samples”.

Easiest way to arouse customs interest- Metal samples could be restricted material

Nah. They'll see small metal pieces in the scanner. What kind of “restricted metal” are you thinking about?

I've been swapping for 10+ years and never had a problem.

ngdawa

shamikb

ngdawa

I always write “metal samples”.

Easiest way to arouse customs interest- Metal samples could be restricted material

Nah. They'll see small metal pieces in the scanner. What kind of “restricted metal” are you thinking about?

I've been swapping for 10+ years and never had a problem.

Metal can mean restricted commercial items. I have been  swapping 24+ years   and they always get  caught in customs if you mention metal especially in Asian countries

If I remember your package to me  never arrived when I had swapped with you . Mine reached you with no issues as it was registered and Hobby items declared. As yours was not registered and  probably had  “metal” must be in the customs storeroom.

shamikb

If I remember your package to me  never arrived when I had swapped with you . Mine reached you with no issues as it was registered and Hobby items declared. As yours was not registered and  probably had  “metal” must be in the customs storeroom.

I had to go back to aee when I swapped with you. It was in 2012. I only write “metal samples” when I have to declare the letter, and that is basically only needed when sending to USA. I'm sorry to say, but India isn't the most reliable country when it comes to mail distributing. Around 90% of my failed swaps are with India, so I don't know what's going on over there. At least I don't have to declare the letters, so there's no deacription of what's inside.

ngdawa

shamikb

If I remember your package to me  never arrived when I had swapped with you . Mine reached you with no issues as it was registered and Hobby items declared. As yours was not registered and  probably had  “metal” must be in the customs storeroom.

I had to go back to aee when I swapped with you. It was in 2012. I only write “metal samples” when I have to declare the letter, and that is basically only needed when sending to USA. I'm sorry to say, but India isn't the most reliable country when it comes to mail distributing. Around 90% of my failed swaps are with India, so I don't know what's going on over there. At least I don't have to declare the letters, so there's no deacription of what's inside.

I have been swapping since 2000 and the only letters I  have lost were from scammers,  and 2 other letters which were lost in own country as investigations showed  and you seemed the only exception

Ive lived in 4 continents  and India is the most reliable in terms of  mail delivery so your  opinion is totally faulty.. 

eg In the USA, local tracking even for registered are not given and USPS is  horrible sent back 2 registered letters to Israel without even attempting to deliver.   ALgeria post is more reliable than France post as I have seen. So do not stereotype. Unfortunately your letters to India failed as its the UPU  law to have a customs declaration since 2002 and any letters without customs declaration usually get seized unless you are very lucky .Within EU/ETA you do not need declarations, hence you must have simply posted the letters without customs paperwork . Please educate yourself .  Anywhere outside  your own customs zone a declaration is mandatory   and since 2022  , postal authorities worldwide even in small islands like IOM  ask for   a  properly filled  customs declaration  if to another customs zone. Now you know why  your letters do not get delivered in India.It was your mistake.Unlike others, you refused to send again

shamikb

ngdawa

shamikb

If I remember your package to me  never arrived when I had swapped with you . Mine reached you with no issues as it was registered and Hobby items declared. As yours was not registered and  probably had  “metal” must be in the customs storeroom.

I had to go back to aee when I swapped with you. It was in 2012. I only write “metal samples” when I have to declare the letter, and that is basically only needed when sending to USA. I'm sorry to say, but India isn't the most reliable country when it comes to mail distributing. Around 90% of my failed swaps are with India, so I don't know what's going on over there. At least I don't have to declare the letters, so there's no deacription of what's inside.

I have been swapping since 2000 and the only letters I  have lost were from scammers,  and 2 other letters which were lost in own country as investigations showed  and you seemed the only exception

Ive lived in 4 continents  and India is the most reliable in terms of  mail delivery so your  opinion is totally faulty.. 

eg In the USA, local tracking even for registered are not given and USPS is  horrible sent back 2 registered letters to Israel without even attempting to deliver.   ALgeria post is more reliable than France post as I have seen. So do not stereotype. Unfortunately your letters to India failed as its the UPU  law to have a customs declaration since 2002 and any letters without customs declaration usually get seized unless you are very lucky .Within EU/ETA you do not need declarations, hence you must have simply posted the letters without customs paperwork . Please educate yourself .  Anywhere outside  your own customs zone a declaration is mandatory   and since 2022  , postal authorities worldwide even in small islands like IOM  ask for   a  properly filled  customs declaration  if to another customs zone. Now you know why  your letters do not get delivered in India.It was your mistake.Unlike others, you refused to send again

 

I like your kind attitude, so thank you. Also, you could just send me a private message instead of bothering everyone else on the forum, but never mind.

I found a few flaws in your comment though:

1) It's not “my opinion”, or anyone's opinion, it's my experience. I thought I had made that clear. Sorry for the confusion!

2) I don't stereotype, I'm only sharing my experience. I also fail to see how I would have been stereotyping. Is it a stereotype that India Post is a mess? I don't have enough experience to tell, nor have I read much about it.

3) I am not the one who needs to be educated, it it's anyone, it's the staff at the post office who distribute the declaration papers. I don't have any at home.

4) I will not pretend I remember our swap 13 years ago. I don't remember if I had anything else to offer, or if I offered to send extra. Going back now I see it was a very small swap where the 9 coins you sent were worth less than a dollar, and the coins I sent was worth about two dollars. If you want you can choose 9 coins as a compensation for the 9 coins lost.

Hi

This was related to customs /swapping so its relevant for all. Thats the reason I mentioned it. Your experience was your letters did not get through to India but the reason was not Indian post as was your opinion  but your lack of customs declaration. This was a flaw.

 This is important to all as many think if they avoid customs paperwork coin will go through. Yes it does for US and Canada if you put 1-2 coins and even for Europe if you put 1-2 coins  but more than that will get opened  and heavy duty levied.Especially in EU and India from my experience. 

In Canada /US if you put customs  papers then the cost of shipping rises drastically.

It is indeed the job of  the postoffice  to ask for the customs form  but at many times they are relaxed. Sometimes they are not helpful and just tell you coins are not allowed and sometimes they help like in one of the cases accounted here in this forum.

shamikb

Hi

 

This was related to customs /swapping so its relevant for all. Thats the reason I mentioned it. Your experience was your letters did not get through to India but the reason was not Indian post as was your opinion  but your lack of customs declaration. This was a flaw.

 This is important to all as many think if they avoid customs paperwork coin will go through. Yes it does for US and Canada if you put 1-2 coins and even for Europe if you put 1-2 coins  but more than that will get opened  and heavy duty levied.Especially in EU and India from my experience. 

In Canada /US if you put customs  papers then the cost of shipping rises drastically.

It is indeed the job of  the postoffice  to ask for the customs form  but at many times they are relaxed. Sometimes they are not helpful and just tell you coins are not allowed and sometimes they help like in one of the cases accounted here in this forum.

 

 

 

This is why communication is important, if you live in a country that requires special treatment to a standard letter to get it delivered then that needs to be communicated to the person sending the letter prior to shipping, not 12 years after the fact. 

The takeaway from all of this from an outside observer is that I simply will not spend the time on trades to India (or any country that requires a customs declaration for a stamped letter)  

I also make it a point to ask the person if there are any special considerations when shipping to their country since it's impossible for each of us individually to know the laws and regulations of every nation on the globe. 

So far, every undeclared letter I've shipped out of the country has arrived and only one shipped from overseas to me has been lost in the void. 

orphenshadow

shamikb

Hi

 

This was related to customs /swapping so its relevant for all. Thats the reason I mentioned it. Your experience was your letters did not get through to India but the reason was not Indian post as was your opinion  but your lack of customs declaration. This was a flaw.

 This is important to all as many think if they avoid customs paperwork coin will go through. Yes it does for US and Canada if you put 1-2 coins and even for Europe if you put 1-2 coins  but more than that will get opened  and heavy duty levied.Especially in EU and India from my experience. 

In Canada /US if you put customs  papers then the cost of shipping rises drastically.

It is indeed the job of  the postoffice  to ask for the customs form  but at many times they are relaxed. Sometimes they are not helpful and just tell you coins are not allowed and sometimes they help like in one of the cases accounted here in this forum.

 

 

 

This is why communication is important, if you live in a country that requires special treatment to a standard letter to get it delivered then that needs to be communicated to the person sending the letter prior to shipping, not 12 years after the fact. 

The takeaway from all of this from an outside observer is that I simply will not spend the time on trades to India (or any country that requires a customs declaration for a stamped letter)  

I also make it a point to ask the person if there are any special considerations when shipping to their country since it's impossible for each of us individually to know the laws and regulations of every nation on the globe. 

So far, every undeclared letter I've shipped out of the country has arrived and only one shipped from overseas to me has been lost in the void. 

This was communicated at the time and is done.  I was told it would be sent as a regular letter  but was not told it would not be declared. Many responsible swappers  enquire  about special customs rules before sending as you have correctly mentioned in your third point.  This is a UPU requirement not a Indian or any other individual  country requirement again to prevent  smuggling  . Well  I know about  customs rules in about 200+ countries, by experience and rules change from time to time so I try to keep up. It is the  law if you send letters to EU and many countries  and was infact  requested by EU again in 2023  to all post administrations to have correct declarations and no commercial value declaration  etc.   Its your prerogative and loss if you swap only with a few countries . If you are within US or Russia  you may still get all the coins you want from ebay but otherwise you need to swap. For someone like me who collects all countries from 1900 to date , its a compulsion to swap with all countries.  If you swap within EU you do not have to worry about customs  and if you are in a country which is lax about smuggling and narcotics control again undeclared letters are fine. As I wrote, even Ive got letters with 2-3 coins safely undeclared and unregistered from US/Canada and EU. However all letters get scanned so if the letter arouses suspicion  it goes to the inspection tray. IF there is a declaration it may get passed unopened or opened if no declaration is there.  We have a numista member in Australia Post so he can validate this. There are exceptions- Central Asian republics and  a few other countries swappers ask not to put  customs declaration to avoid duty. A few EU swappers also ask not to send registered letters as apparently registered letters go under the scanner and are dutiable though if you tick Gift and the value is below 50 Euros or some such amount it should be free, Hence my suggestion to all is before confirming the swap make sure you know the customs rules for shipping coins as if the letter does not reach your swap partner may have a bad feeling though it may not be your fault. Please follow the customs rules too as if the letter gets a heavy duty , then also some partners have a bad feeling (though it may not be your fault)

shamikb

orphenshadow

shamikb

Hi

 

This was related to customs /swapping so its relevant for all. Thats the reason I mentioned it. Your experience was your letters did not get through to India but the reason was not Indian post as was your opinion  but your lack of customs declaration. This was a flaw.

 This is important to all as many think if they avoid customs paperwork coin will go through. Yes it does for US and Canada if you put 1-2 coins and even for Europe if you put 1-2 coins  but more than that will get opened  and heavy duty levied.Especially in EU and India from my experience. 

In Canada /US if you put customs  papers then the cost of shipping rises drastically.

It is indeed the job of  the postoffice  to ask for the customs form  but at many times they are relaxed. Sometimes they are not helpful and just tell you coins are not allowed and sometimes they help like in one of the cases accounted here in this forum.

 

 

 

This is why communication is important, if you live in a country that requires special treatment to a standard letter to get it delivered then that needs to be communicated to the person sending the letter prior to shipping, not 12 years after the fact. 

The takeaway from all of this from an outside observer is that I simply will not spend the time on trades to India (or any country that requires a customs declaration for a stamped letter)  

I also make it a point to ask the person if there are any special considerations when shipping to their country since it's impossible for each of us individually to know the laws and regulations of every nation on the globe. 

So far, every undeclared letter I've shipped out of the country has arrived and only one shipped from overseas to me has been lost in the void. 

This was communicated at the time and is done.  I was told it would be sent as a regular letter  but was not told it would not be declared. Many responsible swappers  enquire  about special customs rules before sending as you have correctly mentioned in your third point.  This is a UPU requirement not a Indian or any other individual  country requirement again to prevent  smuggling  . Well  I know about  customs rules in about 200+ countries, by experience and rules change from time to time so I try to keep up. It is the  law if you send letters to EU and many countries  and was infact  requested by EU again in 2023  to all post administrations to have correct declarations and no commercial value declaration  etc.   Its your prerogative and loss if you swap only with a few countries . If you are within US or Russia  you may still get all the coins you want from ebay but otherwise you need to swap. For someone like me who collects all countries from 1900 to date , its a compulsion to swap with all countries.  If you swap within EU you do not have to worry about customs  and if you are in a country which is lax about smuggling and narcotics control again undeclared letters are fine. As I wrote, even Ive got letters with 2-3 coins safely undeclared and unregistered from US/Canada and EU. However all letters get scanned so if the letter arouses suspicion  it goes to the inspection tray. IF there is a declaration it may get passed unopened or opened if no declaration is there.  We have a numista member in Australia Post so he can validate this. There are exceptions- Central Asian republics and  a few other countries swappers ask not to put  customs declaration to avoid duty. A few EU swappers also ask not to send registered letters as apparently registered letters go under the scanner and are dutiable though if you tick Gift and the value is below 50 Euros or some such amount it should be free, Hence my suggestion to all is before confirming the swap make sure you know the customs rules for shipping coins as if the letter does not reach your swap partner may have a bad feeling though it may not be your fault. Please follow the customs rules too as if the letter gets a heavy duty , then also some partners have a bad feeling (though it may not be your fault)

I think the most confusing thing to me is why you are not getting the letter after customs inspects it?  In the US, after several weeks you should get a notice in your mail saying you have a parcel waiting and that there is taxes owed.  You can then pay the duties and get your letter, or decline and they return to sender. 

I suspect the letters coming to me from over seas that got lost, simply got lost the old fashion way and not because of any customs issue. 

I can't speak for other countries but in the U.S.  a “standard letter” is an envelope with a stamp on it that you drop in any outbound post drop box. You never speak to a postman or actually visit the post office.  There is no declaration forms or way to declare anything on the letter.  There is also no insurance, tracking or anything so you are just praying that it makes it to it's destination.  The upside it's cheap.  So when someone says they are going to send standard letter, this is likely what they are referring to, at least if they are from North America. 

A letter with tracking and customs declaration has to be sent from the post office counter and these are considered “Registered Letters” here and have a much higher premium. 

I always ask and usually find it best to just avoid swaps to countries with strict customs rules unless the value is high enough to justify paying the premium for registered mail.   The last time I almost did a customs form was shipping a few quarters overseas and for .75 cents in value they wanted to charge almost 30 USD in fee's.   My swap partner and I decided it was worth the risk to slap them in an envelope with a stamp and pray. 

The coins that were lost sent to me were worth less than the postage on the envelope so it wasn't a huge hassle.

If you do enough swaps then you kind of just learn the quirks of each country, but for others who just do a few swaps occasionally, it's a lot to worry about. 
 

orphenshadow

shamikb

orphenshadow

shamikb

Hi

 

This was related to customs /swapping so its relevant for all. Thats the reason I mentioned it. Your experience was your letters did not get through to India but the reason was not Indian post as was your opinion  but your lack of customs declaration. This was a flaw.

 This is important to all as many think if they avoid customs paperwork coin will go through. Yes it does for US and Canada if you put 1-2 coins and even for Europe if you put 1-2 coins  but more than that will get opened  and heavy duty levied.Especially in EU and India from my experience. 

In Canada /US if you put customs  papers then the cost of shipping rises drastically.

It is indeed the job of  the postoffice  to ask for the customs form  but at many times they are relaxed. Sometimes they are not helpful and just tell you coins are not allowed and sometimes they help like in one of the cases accounted here in this forum.

 

 

 

This is why communication is important, if you live in a country that requires special treatment to a standard letter to get it delivered then that needs to be communicated to the person sending the letter prior to shipping, not 12 years after the fact. 

The takeaway from all of this from an outside observer is that I simply will not spend the time on trades to India (or any country that requires a customs declaration for a stamped letter)  

I also make it a point to ask the person if there are any special considerations when shipping to their country since it's impossible for each of us individually to know the laws and regulations of every nation on the globe. 

So far, every undeclared letter I've shipped out of the country has arrived and only one shipped from overseas to me has been lost in the void. 

This was communicated at the time and is done.  I was told it would be sent as a regular letter  but was not told it would not be declared. Many responsible swappers  enquire  about special customs rules before sending as you have correctly mentioned in your third point.  This is a UPU requirement not a Indian or any other individual  country requirement again to prevent  smuggling  . Well  I know about  customs rules in about 200+ countries, by experience and rules change from time to time so I try to keep up. It is the  law if you send letters to EU and many countries  and was infact  requested by EU again in 2023  to all post administrations to have correct declarations and no commercial value declaration  etc.   Its your prerogative and loss if you swap only with a few countries . If you are within US or Russia  you may still get all the coins you want from ebay but otherwise you need to swap. For someone like me who collects all countries from 1900 to date , its a compulsion to swap with all countries.  If you swap within EU you do not have to worry about customs  and if you are in a country which is lax about smuggling and narcotics control again undeclared letters are fine. As I wrote, even Ive got letters with 2-3 coins safely undeclared and unregistered from US/Canada and EU. However all letters get scanned so if the letter arouses suspicion  it goes to the inspection tray. IF there is a declaration it may get passed unopened or opened if no declaration is there.  We have a numista member in Australia Post so he can validate this. There are exceptions- Central Asian republics and  a few other countries swappers ask not to put  customs declaration to avoid duty. A few EU swappers also ask not to send registered letters as apparently registered letters go under the scanner and are dutiable though if you tick Gift and the value is below 50 Euros or some such amount it should be free, Hence my suggestion to all is before confirming the swap make sure you know the customs rules for shipping coins as if the letter does not reach your swap partner may have a bad feeling though it may not be your fault. Please follow the customs rules too as if the letter gets a heavy duty , then also some partners have a bad feeling (though it may not be your fault)

I think the most confusing thing to me is why you are not getting the letter after customs inspects it?  In the US, after several weeks you should get a notice in your mail saying you have a parcel waiting and that there is taxes owed.  You can then pay the duties and get your letter, or decline and they return to sender. 

I suspect the letters coming to me from over seas that got lost, simply got lost the old fashion way and not because of any customs issue. 

I can't speak for other countries but in the U.S.  a “standard letter” is an envelope with a stamp on it that you drop in any outbound post drop box. You never speak to a postman or actually visit the post office.  There is no declaration forms or way to declare anything on the letter.  There is also no insurance, tracking or anything so you are just praying that it makes it to it's destination.  The upside it's cheap.  So when someone says they are going to send standard letter, this is likely what they are referring to, at least if they are from North America. 

A letter with tracking and customs declaration has to be sent from the post office counter and these are considered “Registered Letters” here and have a much higher premium. 

I always ask and usually find it best to just avoid swaps to countries with strict customs rules unless the value is high enough to justify paying the premium for registered mail.   The last time I almost did a customs form was shipping a few quarters overseas and for .75 cents in value they wanted to charge almost 30 USD in fee's.   My swap partner and I decided it was worth the risk to slap them in an envelope with a stamp and pray. 

The coins that were lost sent to me were worth less than the postage on the envelope so it wasn't a huge hassle.

If you do enough swaps then you kind of just learn the quirks of each country, but for others who just do a few swaps occasionally, it's a lot to worry about. 
 

I have lived in midwest and I can tell you USPS is the worst worldwide… Many registered letters from specifically Israel get sent back as addressee not found even  when others have got delivered. USPS do not even have local tracking once the letter reaches the International hub  at US.  Yes letters should get a notice asking to pay duty but sometimes, customs cant not value the coin and it goes to the stock room. THis is specially true in larger countries. If you are living in US or Canada its costly to even think of tracked international mail. You have to do USPS priority  if available to that country or registered mail which is extremely expensive .Once you do enough swaps abroad like  have done over last 22 years ,  you will reach the same conclusions.  If you send 2-3 coins from  Canada and US  it may reach safely without any declaration or registration. The same rule applies to  NOrway, Denmark, FInland ,Netherlands  which also have high postal tariffs for international registered post. Please note however there are many thefts in US and UK post-offices while sending international mail  (even US Canada) so if the 2-3 are silver coins please ensure you can not detect them from outside.   Some US post offices ask to see the contents like they insist in India as well if you are sending registered mail so its not a good idea .So yes f you swap only in the US no issues , only in EU no issues but if outside your customs zone please check rules. Its not a major issue to fill customs forms but if it means postage going up check the viability.

shamikb

orphenshadow

shamikb

orphenshadow

shamikb

Hi

 

This was related to customs /swapping so its relevant for all. Thats the reason I mentioned it. Your experience was your letters did not get through to India but the reason was not Indian post as was your opinion  but your lack of customs declaration. This was a flaw.

 This is important to all as many think if they avoid customs paperwork coin will go through. Yes it does for US and Canada if you put 1-2 coins and even for Europe if you put 1-2 coins  but more than that will get opened  and heavy duty levied.Especially in EU and India from my experience. 

In Canada /US if you put customs  papers then the cost of shipping rises drastically.

It is indeed the job of  the postoffice  to ask for the customs form  but at many times they are relaxed. Sometimes they are not helpful and just tell you coins are not allowed and sometimes they help like in one of the cases accounted here in this forum.

 

 

 

This is why communication is important, if you live in a country that requires special treatment to a standard letter to get it delivered then that needs to be communicated to the person sending the letter prior to shipping, not 12 years after the fact. 

The takeaway from all of this from an outside observer is that I simply will not spend the time on trades to India (or any country that requires a customs declaration for a stamped letter)  

I also make it a point to ask the person if there are any special considerations when shipping to their country since it's impossible for each of us individually to know the laws and regulations of every nation on the globe. 

So far, every undeclared letter I've shipped out of the country has arrived and only one shipped from overseas to me has been lost in the void. 

This was communicated at the time and is done.  I was told it would be sent as a regular letter  but was not told it would not be declared. Many responsible swappers  enquire  about special customs rules before sending as you have correctly mentioned in your third point.  This is a UPU requirement not a Indian or any other individual  country requirement again to prevent  smuggling  . Well  I know about  customs rules in about 200+ countries, by experience and rules change from time to time so I try to keep up. It is the  law if you send letters to EU and many countries  and was infact  requested by EU again in 2023  to all post administrations to have correct declarations and no commercial value declaration  etc.   Its your prerogative and loss if you swap only with a few countries . If you are within US or Russia  you may still get all the coins you want from ebay but otherwise you need to swap. For someone like me who collects all countries from 1900 to date , its a compulsion to swap with all countries.  If you swap within EU you do not have to worry about customs  and if you are in a country which is lax about smuggling and narcotics control again undeclared letters are fine. As I wrote, even Ive got letters with 2-3 coins safely undeclared and unregistered from US/Canada and EU. However all letters get scanned so if the letter arouses suspicion  it goes to the inspection tray. IF there is a declaration it may get passed unopened or opened if no declaration is there.  We have a numista member in Australia Post so he can validate this. There are exceptions- Central Asian republics and  a few other countries swappers ask not to put  customs declaration to avoid duty. A few EU swappers also ask not to send registered letters as apparently registered letters go under the scanner and are dutiable though if you tick Gift and the value is below 50 Euros or some such amount it should be free, Hence my suggestion to all is before confirming the swap make sure you know the customs rules for shipping coins as if the letter does not reach your swap partner may have a bad feeling though it may not be your fault. Please follow the customs rules too as if the letter gets a heavy duty , then also some partners have a bad feeling (though it may not be your fault)

I think the most confusing thing to me is why you are not getting the letter after customs inspects it?  In the US, after several weeks you should get a notice in your mail saying you have a parcel waiting and that there is taxes owed.  You can then pay the duties and get your letter, or decline and they return to sender. 

I suspect the letters coming to me from over seas that got lost, simply got lost the old fashion way and not because of any customs issue. 

I can't speak for other countries but in the U.S.  a “standard letter” is an envelope with a stamp on it that you drop in any outbound post drop box. You never speak to a postman or actually visit the post office.  There is no declaration forms or way to declare anything on the letter.  There is also no insurance, tracking or anything so you are just praying that it makes it to it's destination.  The upside it's cheap.  So when someone says they are going to send standard letter, this is likely what they are referring to, at least if they are from North America. 

A letter with tracking and customs declaration has to be sent from the post office counter and these are considered “Registered Letters” here and have a much higher premium. 

I always ask and usually find it best to just avoid swaps to countries with strict customs rules unless the value is high enough to justify paying the premium for registered mail.   The last time I almost did a customs form was shipping a few quarters overseas and for .75 cents in value they wanted to charge almost 30 USD in fee's.   My swap partner and I decided it was worth the risk to slap them in an envelope with a stamp and pray. 

The coins that were lost sent to me were worth less than the postage on the envelope so it wasn't a huge hassle.

If you do enough swaps then you kind of just learn the quirks of each country, but for others who just do a few swaps occasionally, it's a lot to worry about. 
 

I have lived in midwest and I can tell you USPS is the worst worldwide… Many registered letters from specifically Israel get sent back as addressee not found even  when others have got delivered. USPS do not even have local tracking once the letter reaches the International hub  at US.  Yes letters should get a notice asking to pay duty but sometimes, customs cant not value the coin and it goes to the stock room. THis is specially true in larger countries. If you are living in US or Canada its costly to even think of tracked international mail. You have to do USPS priority  if available to that country or registered mail which is extremely expensive .Once you do enough swaps abroad like  have done over last 22 years ,  you will reach the same conclusions.  If you send 2-3 coins from  Canada and US  it may reach safely without any declaration or registration. The same rule applies to  NOrway, Denmark, FInland ,Netherlands  which also have high postal tariffs for international registered post. Please note however there are many thefts in US and UK post-offices while sending international mail  (even US Canada) so if the 2-3 are silver coins please ensure you can not detect them from outside.   Some US post offices ask to see the contents like they insist in India as well if you are sending registered mail so its not a good idea .So yes f you swap only in the US no issues , only in EU no issues but if outside your customs zone please check rules. Its not a major issue to fill customs forms but if it means postage going up check the viability.

Not trying to start an argument, but I live here I use the USPS every single day, I guarantee you that I have far more experience with the USPS than you do.  I don't need a lesson on anecdotal experiences.  

But since you don't have a grasp on how the postal system works here, allow me to give you an explanation. 

Once the USPS hands the letter off to the other countries postal service they are no longer in control of what happens or capable of tracking. The USPS has agreements with some countries mostly in the EU to share tracking data for international shipments, but this is not guaranteed to be accurate since they are two totally different logistic networks. 

The same for inbound letters, only those from countries that have agreements with the USPS to share information can be tracked beyond the international hubs using the original tracking number, but for all USPS customers with Informed Delivery, a notice is sent when the letter reaches the international hub, with an ETA, and a photo of the letter is sent when it reaches the local hub on the day of delivery.  It's not perfect but it's better than zero tracking.  

When shipping international the USPS is only concerned with one task, and that is getting the parcel to the appropriate country and handing it off to their postal service.  Everything beyond that is on the receiving country to complete.  So your example with Israel the letter likely was sent to Israel, and then rejected by their postal service and returned to sender.  This is not the USPS's problem.  Nor is it the USPS's problem if the letter is sent without the proper country code for Israel on the label. 

That's not to say the USPS does not have it's issues.  Cuts to staffing have caused shipping delays and yes, like all places with humans working, there have been cases of theft or letters being lost/damaged in the equipment, but considering the amount of mail they process, the size and complexity of the network.  It's a very very tiny fraction and the USPS is still probably the best logistics network when it comes to mail on the planet.   It's one of the few things the US should actually be proud of. 

 

orphenshadow

shamikb

orphenshadow

shamikb

orphenshadow

shamikb

Hi

 

This was related to customs /swapping so its relevant for all. Thats the reason I mentioned it. Your experience was your letters did not get through to India but the reason was not Indian post as was your opinion  but your lack of customs declaration. This was a flaw.

 This is important to all as many think if they avoid customs paperwork coin will go through. Yes it does for US and Canada if you put 1-2 coins and even for Europe if you put 1-2 coins  but more than that will get opened  and heavy duty levied.Especially in EU and India from my experience. 

In Canada /US if you put customs  papers then the cost of shipping rises drastically.

It is indeed the job of  the postoffice  to ask for the customs form  but at many times they are relaxed. Sometimes they are not helpful and just tell you coins are not allowed and sometimes they help like in one of the cases accounted here in this forum.

 

 

 

This is why communication is important, if you live in a country that requires special treatment to a standard letter to get it delivered then that needs to be communicated to the person sending the letter prior to shipping, not 12 years after the fact. 

The takeaway from all of this from an outside observer is that I simply will not spend the time on trades to India (or any country that requires a customs declaration for a stamped letter)  

I also make it a point to ask the person if there are any special considerations when shipping to their country since it's impossible for each of us individually to know the laws and regulations of every nation on the globe. 

So far, every undeclared letter I've shipped out of the country has arrived and only one shipped from overseas to me has been lost in the void. 

This was communicated at the time and is done.  I was told it would be sent as a regular letter  but was not told it would not be declared. Many responsible swappers  enquire  about special customs rules before sending as you have correctly mentioned in your third point.  This is a UPU requirement not a Indian or any other individual  country requirement again to prevent  smuggling  . Well  I know about  customs rules in about 200+ countries, by experience and rules change from time to time so I try to keep up. It is the  law if you send letters to EU and many countries  and was infact  requested by EU again in 2023  to all post administrations to have correct declarations and no commercial value declaration  etc.   Its your prerogative and loss if you swap only with a few countries . If you are within US or Russia  you may still get all the coins you want from ebay but otherwise you need to swap. For someone like me who collects all countries from 1900 to date , its a compulsion to swap with all countries.  If you swap within EU you do not have to worry about customs  and if you are in a country which is lax about smuggling and narcotics control again undeclared letters are fine. As I wrote, even Ive got letters with 2-3 coins safely undeclared and unregistered from US/Canada and EU. However all letters get scanned so if the letter arouses suspicion  it goes to the inspection tray. IF there is a declaration it may get passed unopened or opened if no declaration is there.  We have a numista member in Australia Post so he can validate this. There are exceptions- Central Asian republics and  a few other countries swappers ask not to put  customs declaration to avoid duty. A few EU swappers also ask not to send registered letters as apparently registered letters go under the scanner and are dutiable though if you tick Gift and the value is below 50 Euros or some such amount it should be free, Hence my suggestion to all is before confirming the swap make sure you know the customs rules for shipping coins as if the letter does not reach your swap partner may have a bad feeling though it may not be your fault. Please follow the customs rules too as if the letter gets a heavy duty , then also some partners have a bad feeling (though it may not be your fault)

I think the most confusing thing to me is why you are not getting the letter after customs inspects it?  In the US, after several weeks you should get a notice in your mail saying you have a parcel waiting and that there is taxes owed.  You can then pay the duties and get your letter, or decline and they return to sender. 

I suspect the letters coming to me from over seas that got lost, simply got lost the old fashion way and not because of any customs issue. 

I can't speak for other countries but in the U.S.  a “standard letter” is an envelope with a stamp on it that you drop in any outbound post drop box. You never speak to a postman or actually visit the post office.  There is no declaration forms or way to declare anything on the letter.  There is also no insurance, tracking or anything so you are just praying that it makes it to it's destination.  The upside it's cheap.  So when someone says they are going to send standard letter, this is likely what they are referring to, at least if they are from North America. 

A letter with tracking and customs declaration has to be sent from the post office counter and these are considered “Registered Letters” here and have a much higher premium. 

I always ask and usually find it best to just avoid swaps to countries with strict customs rules unless the value is high enough to justify paying the premium for registered mail.   The last time I almost did a customs form was shipping a few quarters overseas and for .75 cents in value they wanted to charge almost 30 USD in fee's.   My swap partner and I decided it was worth the risk to slap them in an envelope with a stamp and pray. 

The coins that were lost sent to me were worth less than the postage on the envelope so it wasn't a huge hassle.

If you do enough swaps then you kind of just learn the quirks of each country, but for others who just do a few swaps occasionally, it's a lot to worry about. 
 

I have lived in midwest and I can tell you USPS is the worst worldwide… Many registered letters from specifically Israel get sent back as addressee not found even  when others have got delivered. USPS do not even have local tracking once the letter reaches the International hub  at US.  Yes letters should get a notice asking to pay duty but sometimes, customs cant not value the coin and it goes to the stock room. THis is specially true in larger countries. If you are living in US or Canada its costly to even think of tracked international mail. You have to do USPS priority  if available to that country or registered mail which is extremely expensive .Once you do enough swaps abroad like  have done over last 22 years ,  you will reach the same conclusions.  If you send 2-3 coins from  Canada and US  it may reach safely without any declaration or registration. The same rule applies to  NOrway, Denmark, FInland ,Netherlands  which also have high postal tariffs for international registered post. Please note however there are many thefts in US and UK post-offices while sending international mail  (even US Canada) so if the 2-3 are silver coins please ensure you can not detect them from outside.   Some US post offices ask to see the contents like they insist in India as well if you are sending registered mail so its not a good idea .So yes f you swap only in the US no issues , only in EU no issues but if outside your customs zone please check rules. Its not a major issue to fill customs forms but if it means postage going up check the viability.

Not trying to start an argument, but I live here I use the USPS every single day, I guarantee you that I have far more experience with the USPS than you do.  I don't need a lesson on anecdotal experiences.  

But since you don't have a grasp on how the postal system works here, allow me to give you an explanation. 

Once the USPS hands the letter off to the other countries postal service they are no longer in control of what happens or capable of tracking. The USPS has agreements with some countries mostly in the EU to share tracking data for international shipments, but this is not guaranteed to be accurate since they are two totally different logistic networks. 

The same for inbound letters, only those from countries that have agreements with the USPS to share information can be tracked beyond the international hubs using the original tracking number, but for all USPS customers with Informed Delivery, a notice is sent when the letter reaches the international hub, with an ETA, and a photo of the letter is sent when it reaches the local hub on the day of delivery.  It's not perfect but it's better than zero tracking.  

When shipping international the USPS is only concerned with one task, and that is getting the parcel to the appropriate country and handing it off to their postal service.  Everything beyond that is on the receiving country to complete.  So your example with Israel the letter likely was sent to Israel, and then rejected by their postal service and returned to sender.  This is not the USPS's problem.  Nor is it the USPS's problem if the letter is sent without the proper country code for Israel on the label. 

That's not to say the USPS does not have it's issues.  Cuts to staffing have caused shipping delays and yes, like all places with humans working, there have been cases of theft or letters being lost/damaged in the equipment, but considering the amount of mail they process, the size and complexity of the network.  It's a very very tiny fraction and the USPS is still probably the best logistics network when it comes to mail on the planet.   It's one of the few things the US should actually be proud of. 

 

This is  not anecdotal. I  have lived in the US and used USPS extensively as I used to get almost 4-5 letters daily from ebay. The Israeli ebay seller  in question ahd not made any mistake and had applied for compensation from Israel post and USPS were to pay up ( I am told they do not even pay up .See Frank Robinson UK NY Judge and numismatist comments on his website so its on public domain) .  I have also consulted  USPS on its logistics network so  would suggest please do not give me your theories. Also this has been admitted by  USPS  to India Post as well and there is an advisory from India post when you post anything to USA and and also to Canada about lack of  online tracking  . How many years have you been swapping?  I can see very few swaps - Ive been swapping since last 22 years  on a number of  platforms. This is a forum for others to learn so any such unverified comments or  doubts send me a PM as I will not be responding further on the forum on this particular conversation  to avoid inconveniencing others.

shamikb

orphenshadow

shamikb

orphenshadow

shamikb

orphenshadow

shamikb

Hi

 

This was related to customs /swapping so its relevant for all. Thats the reason I mentioned it. Your experience was your letters did not get through to India but the reason was not Indian post as was your opinion  but your lack of customs declaration. This was a flaw.

 This is important to all as many think if they avoid customs paperwork coin will go through. Yes it does for US and Canada if you put 1-2 coins and even for Europe if you put 1-2 coins  but more than that will get opened  and heavy duty levied.Especially in EU and India from my experience. 

In Canada /US if you put customs  papers then the cost of shipping rises drastically.

It is indeed the job of  the postoffice  to ask for the customs form  but at many times they are relaxed. Sometimes they are not helpful and just tell you coins are not allowed and sometimes they help like in one of the cases accounted here in this forum.

 

 

 

This is why communication is important, if you live in a country that requires special treatment to a standard letter to get it delivered then that needs to be communicated to the person sending the letter prior to shipping, not 12 years after the fact. 

The takeaway from all of this from an outside observer is that I simply will not spend the time on trades to India (or any country that requires a customs declaration for a stamped letter)  

I also make it a point to ask the person if there are any special considerations when shipping to their country since it's impossible for each of us individually to know the laws and regulations of every nation on the globe. 

So far, every undeclared letter I've shipped out of the country has arrived and only one shipped from overseas to me has been lost in the void. 

This was communicated at the time and is done.  I was told it would be sent as a regular letter  but was not told it would not be declared. Many responsible swappers  enquire  about special customs rules before sending as you have correctly mentioned in your third point.  This is a UPU requirement not a Indian or any other individual  country requirement again to prevent  smuggling  . Well  I know about  customs rules in about 200+ countries, by experience and rules change from time to time so I try to keep up. It is the  law if you send letters to EU and many countries  and was infact  requested by EU again in 2023  to all post administrations to have correct declarations and no commercial value declaration  etc.   Its your prerogative and loss if you swap only with a few countries . If you are within US or Russia  you may still get all the coins you want from ebay but otherwise you need to swap. For someone like me who collects all countries from 1900 to date , its a compulsion to swap with all countries.  If you swap within EU you do not have to worry about customs  and if you are in a country which is lax about smuggling and narcotics control again undeclared letters are fine. As I wrote, even Ive got letters with 2-3 coins safely undeclared and unregistered from US/Canada and EU. However all letters get scanned so if the letter arouses suspicion  it goes to the inspection tray. IF there is a declaration it may get passed unopened or opened if no declaration is there.  We have a numista member in Australia Post so he can validate this. There are exceptions- Central Asian republics and  a few other countries swappers ask not to put  customs declaration to avoid duty. A few EU swappers also ask not to send registered letters as apparently registered letters go under the scanner and are dutiable though if you tick Gift and the value is below 50 Euros or some such amount it should be free, Hence my suggestion to all is before confirming the swap make sure you know the customs rules for shipping coins as if the letter does not reach your swap partner may have a bad feeling though it may not be your fault. Please follow the customs rules too as if the letter gets a heavy duty , then also some partners have a bad feeling (though it may not be your fault)

I think the most confusing thing to me is why you are not getting the letter after customs inspects it?  In the US, after several weeks you should get a notice in your mail saying you have a parcel waiting and that there is taxes owed.  You can then pay the duties and get your letter, or decline and they return to sender. 

I suspect the letters coming to me from over seas that got lost, simply got lost the old fashion way and not because of any customs issue. 

I can't speak for other countries but in the U.S.  a “standard letter” is an envelope with a stamp on it that you drop in any outbound post drop box. You never speak to a postman or actually visit the post office.  There is no declaration forms or way to declare anything on the letter.  There is also no insurance, tracking or anything so you are just praying that it makes it to it's destination.  The upside it's cheap.  So when someone says they are going to send standard letter, this is likely what they are referring to, at least if they are from North America. 

A letter with tracking and customs declaration has to be sent from the post office counter and these are considered “Registered Letters” here and have a much higher premium. 

I always ask and usually find it best to just avoid swaps to countries with strict customs rules unless the value is high enough to justify paying the premium for registered mail.   The last time I almost did a customs form was shipping a few quarters overseas and for .75 cents in value they wanted to charge almost 30 USD in fee's.   My swap partner and I decided it was worth the risk to slap them in an envelope with a stamp and pray. 

The coins that were lost sent to me were worth less than the postage on the envelope so it wasn't a huge hassle.

If you do enough swaps then you kind of just learn the quirks of each country, but for others who just do a few swaps occasionally, it's a lot to worry about. 
 

I have lived in midwest and I can tell you USPS is the worst worldwide… Many registered letters from specifically Israel get sent back as addressee not found even  when others have got delivered. USPS do not even have local tracking once the letter reaches the International hub  at US.  Yes letters should get a notice asking to pay duty but sometimes, customs cant not value the coin and it goes to the stock room. THis is specially true in larger countries. If you are living in US or Canada its costly to even think of tracked international mail. You have to do USPS priority  if available to that country or registered mail which is extremely expensive .Once you do enough swaps abroad like  have done over last 22 years ,  you will reach the same conclusions.  If you send 2-3 coins from  Canada and US  it may reach safely without any declaration or registration. The same rule applies to  NOrway, Denmark, FInland ,Netherlands  which also have high postal tariffs for international registered post. Please note however there are many thefts in US and UK post-offices while sending international mail  (even US Canada) so if the 2-3 are silver coins please ensure you can not detect them from outside.   Some US post offices ask to see the contents like they insist in India as well if you are sending registered mail so its not a good idea .So yes f you swap only in the US no issues , only in EU no issues but if outside your customs zone please check rules. Its not a major issue to fill customs forms but if it means postage going up check the viability.

Not trying to start an argument, but I live here I use the USPS every single day, I guarantee you that I have far more experience with the USPS than you do.  I don't need a lesson on anecdotal experiences.  

But since you don't have a grasp on how the postal system works here, allow me to give you an explanation. 

Once the USPS hands the letter off to the other countries postal service they are no longer in control of what happens or capable of tracking. The USPS has agreements with some countries mostly in the EU to share tracking data for international shipments, but this is not guaranteed to be accurate since they are two totally different logistic networks. 

The same for inbound letters, only those from countries that have agreements with the USPS to share information can be tracked beyond the international hubs using the original tracking number, but for all USPS customers with Informed Delivery, a notice is sent when the letter reaches the international hub, with an ETA, and a photo of the letter is sent when it reaches the local hub on the day of delivery.  It's not perfect but it's better than zero tracking.  

When shipping international the USPS is only concerned with one task, and that is getting the parcel to the appropriate country and handing it off to their postal service.  Everything beyond that is on the receiving country to complete.  So your example with Israel the letter likely was sent to Israel, and then rejected by their postal service and returned to sender.  This is not the USPS's problem.  Nor is it the USPS's problem if the letter is sent without the proper country code for Israel on the label. 

That's not to say the USPS does not have it's issues.  Cuts to staffing have caused shipping delays and yes, like all places with humans working, there have been cases of theft or letters being lost/damaged in the equipment, but considering the amount of mail they process, the size and complexity of the network.  It's a very very tiny fraction and the USPS is still probably the best logistics network when it comes to mail on the planet.   It's one of the few things the US should actually be proud of. 

 

This is  not anecdotal. I  have lived in the US and used USPS extensively as I used to get almost 4-5 letters daily for ebay. The Israeli ebay seller  had applied for compensation from Israel post and USPS were to pay up ( I am told they do not even pay up and . See Frank Robinson UK NY Judge and numismatist comments on his website so its on public domain) .  I have also consulted  USPS on its logistics network so  would suggest please do not give me your theories. Also this has been admitted by  USPS  to India Post as ell and there is an advisory from India post when you post anything to USA and and also to Canada about lack of  online tracking  . How many years have you been swapping?  I can see very few swaps - Ive been swapping since last 22 years  on a number of  platforms. This is a forum for others to learn so any such unverified comments or  doubts send me a PM as I will not be responding further on the forum to avoid inconveniencing others.

You should educate yourself on what anecdotal evidence means and perhaps you will see how nonsensical this last reply is.  But yes, please refrain.  It's only going to confuse others. 

orphenshadow

shamikb

orphenshadow

shamikb

orphenshadow

shamikb

orphenshadow

shamikb

Hi

 

This was related to customs /swapping so its relevant for all. Thats the reason I mentioned it. Your experience was your letters did not get through to India but the reason was not Indian post as was your opinion  but your lack of customs declaration. This was a flaw.

 This is important to all as many think if they avoid customs paperwork coin will go through. Yes it does for US and Canada if you put 1-2 coins and even for Europe if you put 1-2 coins  but more than that will get opened  and heavy duty levied.Especially in EU and India from my experience. 

In Canada /US if you put customs  papers then the cost of shipping rises drastically.

It is indeed the job of  the postoffice  to ask for the customs form  but at many times they are relaxed. Sometimes they are not helpful and just tell you coins are not allowed and sometimes they help like in one of the cases accounted here in this forum.

 

 

 

This is why communication is important, if you live in a country that requires special treatment to a standard letter to get it delivered then that needs to be communicated to the person sending the letter prior to shipping, not 12 years after the fact. 

The takeaway from all of this from an outside observer is that I simply will not spend the time on trades to India (or any country that requires a customs declaration for a stamped letter)  

I also make it a point to ask the person if there are any special considerations when shipping to their country since it's impossible for each of us individually to know the laws and regulations of every nation on the globe. 

So far, every undeclared letter I've shipped out of the country has arrived and only one shipped from overseas to me has been lost in the void. 

This was communicated at the time and is done.  I was told it would be sent as a regular letter  but was not told it would not be declared. Many responsible swappers  enquire  about special customs rules before sending as you have correctly mentioned in your third point.  This is a UPU requirement not a Indian or any other individual  country requirement again to prevent  smuggling  . Well  I know about  customs rules in about 200+ countries, by experience and rules change from time to time so I try to keep up. It is the  law if you send letters to EU and many countries  and was infact  requested by EU again in 2023  to all post administrations to have correct declarations and no commercial value declaration  etc.   Its your prerogative and loss if you swap only with a few countries . If you are within US or Russia  you may still get all the coins you want from ebay but otherwise you need to swap. For someone like me who collects all countries from 1900 to date , its a compulsion to swap with all countries.  If you swap within EU you do not have to worry about customs  and if you are in a country which is lax about smuggling and narcotics control again undeclared letters are fine. As I wrote, even Ive got letters with 2-3 coins safely undeclared and unregistered from US/Canada and EU. However all letters get scanned so if the letter arouses suspicion  it goes to the inspection tray. IF there is a declaration it may get passed unopened or opened if no declaration is there.  We have a numista member in Australia Post so he can validate this. There are exceptions- Central Asian republics and  a few other countries swappers ask not to put  customs declaration to avoid duty. A few EU swappers also ask not to send registered letters as apparently registered letters go under the scanner and are dutiable though if you tick Gift and the value is below 50 Euros or some such amount it should be free, Hence my suggestion to all is before confirming the swap make sure you know the customs rules for shipping coins as if the letter does not reach your swap partner may have a bad feeling though it may not be your fault. Please follow the customs rules too as if the letter gets a heavy duty , then also some partners have a bad feeling (though it may not be your fault)

I think the most confusing thing to me is why you are not getting the letter after customs inspects it?  In the US, after several weeks you should get a notice in your mail saying you have a parcel waiting and that there is taxes owed.  You can then pay the duties and get your letter, or decline and they return to sender. 

I suspect the letters coming to me from over seas that got lost, simply got lost the old fashion way and not because of any customs issue. 

I can't speak for other countries but in the U.S.  a “standard letter” is an envelope with a stamp on it that you drop in any outbound post drop box. You never speak to a postman or actually visit the post office.  There is no declaration forms or way to declare anything on the letter.  There is also no insurance, tracking or anything so you are just praying that it makes it to it's destination.  The upside it's cheap.  So when someone says they are going to send standard letter, this is likely what they are referring to, at least if they are from North America. 

A letter with tracking and customs declaration has to be sent from the post office counter and these are considered “Registered Letters” here and have a much higher premium. 

I always ask and usually find it best to just avoid swaps to countries with strict customs rules unless the value is high enough to justify paying the premium for registered mail.   The last time I almost did a customs form was shipping a few quarters overseas and for .75 cents in value they wanted to charge almost 30 USD in fee's.   My swap partner and I decided it was worth the risk to slap them in an envelope with a stamp and pray. 

The coins that were lost sent to me were worth less than the postage on the envelope so it wasn't a huge hassle.

If you do enough swaps then you kind of just learn the quirks of each country, but for others who just do a few swaps occasionally, it's a lot to worry about. 
 

I have lived in midwest and I can tell you USPS is the worst worldwide… Many registered letters from specifically Israel get sent back as addressee not found even  when others have got delivered. USPS do not even have local tracking once the letter reaches the International hub  at US.  Yes letters should get a notice asking to pay duty but sometimes, customs cant not value the coin and it goes to the stock room. THis is specially true in larger countries. If you are living in US or Canada its costly to even think of tracked international mail. You have to do USPS priority  if available to that country or registered mail which is extremely expensive .Once you do enough swaps abroad like  have done over last 22 years ,  you will reach the same conclusions.  If you send 2-3 coins from  Canada and US  it may reach safely without any declaration or registration. The same rule applies to  NOrway, Denmark, FInland ,Netherlands  which also have high postal tariffs for international registered post. Please note however there are many thefts in US and UK post-offices while sending international mail  (even US Canada) so if the 2-3 are silver coins please ensure you can not detect them from outside.   Some US post offices ask to see the contents like they insist in India as well if you are sending registered mail so its not a good idea .So yes f you swap only in the US no issues , only in EU no issues but if outside your customs zone please check rules. Its not a major issue to fill customs forms but if it means postage going up check the viability.

Not trying to start an argument, but I live here I use the USPS every single day, I guarantee you that I have far more experience with the USPS than you do.  I don't need a lesson on anecdotal experiences.  

But since you don't have a grasp on how the postal system works here, allow me to give you an explanation. 

Once the USPS hands the letter off to the other countries postal service they are no longer in control of what happens or capable of tracking. The USPS has agreements with some countries mostly in the EU to share tracking data for international shipments, but this is not guaranteed to be accurate since they are two totally different logistic networks. 

The same for inbound letters, only those from countries that have agreements with the USPS to share information can be tracked beyond the international hubs using the original tracking number, but for all USPS customers with Informed Delivery, a notice is sent when the letter reaches the international hub, with an ETA, and a photo of the letter is sent when it reaches the local hub on the day of delivery.  It's not perfect but it's better than zero tracking.  

When shipping international the USPS is only concerned with one task, and that is getting the parcel to the appropriate country and handing it off to their postal service.  Everything beyond that is on the receiving country to complete.  So your example with Israel the letter likely was sent to Israel, and then rejected by their postal service and returned to sender.  This is not the USPS's problem.  Nor is it the USPS's problem if the letter is sent without the proper country code for Israel on the label. 

That's not to say the USPS does not have it's issues.  Cuts to staffing have caused shipping delays and yes, like all places with humans working, there have been cases of theft or letters being lost/damaged in the equipment, but considering the amount of mail they process, the size and complexity of the network.  It's a very very tiny fraction and the USPS is still probably the best logistics network when it comes to mail on the planet.   It's one of the few things the US should actually be proud of. 

 

This is  not anecdotal. I  have lived in the US and used USPS extensively as I used to get almost 4-5 letters daily for ebay. The Israeli ebay seller  had applied for compensation from Israel post and USPS were to pay up ( I am told they do not even pay up and . See Frank Robinson UK NY Judge and numismatist comments on his website so its on public domain) .  I have also consulted  USPS on its logistics network so  would suggest please do not give me your theories. Also this has been admitted by  USPS  to India Post as ell and there is an advisory from India post when you post anything to USA and and also to Canada about lack of  online tracking  . How many years have you been swapping?  I can see very few swaps - Ive been swapping since last 22 years  on a number of  platforms. This is a forum for others to learn so any such unverified comments or  doubts send me a PM as I will not be responding further on the forum to avoid inconveniencing others.

You should educate yourself on what anecdotal evidence means and perhaps you will see how nonsensical this last reply is.  But yes, please refrain.  It's only going to confuse others. 

Beter not use words you are not familiar with  or confuse people with irrelevant incorrect information.  This forum us about avoiding tax on customs and as you have not done customs declarations give yorr opinions on relevant forum.

I hope you understand what continue on  PM  means

For those interested in what is actually permitted and restricted for each country, I found that the USPS has a portal with a page for each country.  I don't think there would be many instances where it would be different from another source country.  But it might be worth checking your local postal service website for a similar page.  

https://pe.usps.com/text/imm/welcome.htm