Move Some Exonumia to Coins

Good afternoon,

After a hearty discussion in another thread, user Kopieka has discovered that some pieces, currently classified here as exonumia, were, in fact, legal tender, and should possibly, if not probably, be re-classified as coins.

One piece in question: 

5 ECU - Baudouin I (Treaties of Rome) - Belgium – Numista

And another:

50 ECU - Baudouin I (Treaties of Rome) - Belgium – Numista

According to the National Bank of Belgium Musem, “several countries decided to actually issue ECUs, Belgium was the only one to make them legal tender. Between 1987 and 1998, Belgium minted silver coins of 5 ECU and 50 ECU gold coins. So, in a sense, our country was the first to issue a common European currency.” [The road to the euro | NBB Museum]

I, among others, firmly believe that the above-mentioned pieces are indeed coins, not exonumia.

I wonder also whether Numista includes “European Currency Unit” among its long list of currencies. If not, I think it should.

Thank you for reading this ,and I look forward to the friendly discussion.

Could you link the debate please? Because there were not ECU coins issued, as far as I know, they always had a set value in different currency, not simply ECU.

Une discussion identique sur le forum français depuis 2018 pour les ECU de Belgique: https://fr.numista.com/forum/topic69227.html#dernier

Jarcek

Could you link the debate please? Because there were not ECU coins issued, as far as I know, they always had a set value in different currency, not simply ECU.

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic135193.html#p1086630

I think ECU issues should stay gathered together.

Currently the website structure separates too much Exonumia from coins or banknotes, it is something we'll work on in the future, in order to solve recurring debates.

Good afternoon,

To support the initial request, here's what's stated in the folder delivered with the 5 ECU coin.
In Belgium, ECU were available from the Banque Nationale Belge (B.N.B.), other banks and even post offices.

Émission par la Belgique d'un ECU - Belgium issues an ECU
(I guess "Émission" makes perfect sense : the term "issue" refers to the production and putting into circulation of new coins by a monetary authority)

I hope this can help to classify it. 

Vince

The actual price will be established daily according to the London fixing.
Silver ECU: 500 F.B.
Place of availability:
The golden ECU: can be obtained from financial institutions by completing a subscription form. Deliveries may be staggered according to manufacturing possibilities.
The silver ECU: can be obtained from the B.N.B. and its branches, post offices and all financial institutions.

I can scan or photograph the inside of the leaflet if anyone is interested (it's just the description of the piece, a brief story of Charles Quint and the ECU).

Having to put a price in Francs Belges is a clue about how ECU was not really a currency there, from my perspective

Compendium

Having to put a price in Francs Belges is a clue about how ECU was not really a currency there, from my perspective

I wouldn't say that 😉

From my point of view, it's an indication of value. Just as we had with the Eurokits.

The similarity with the Euro would suggest the intention of potentially putting this currency into circulation.

You could say that it's a current currency legal tender that hasn't been put into circulation.

Ok, so according to Belgium royal decree, this was legal tender. However, ECU was only virtual currency and did not replace nation currencies at the time. That is why, Gibraltar which has ECU coins, had determined their value in Pound. So either, Belgium did the same, and if this ECU coin was returned to Belgium bank, it would be exchanged for fixed ammount of Belgian Francs - and thus it would belong in coins, or would not be exchanged and was not payable, thus royal decree is useless piece of paper and they would belong to Exonumia.

Which one is it?

it stops at first sentence: this was a legal tender.

There's no valid reason to override a monetary authority's decision and disown it.

Belgium issued it. The fact that other states or countries have not followed it should be irrelevant.

Putting the Belgian ECU in the same category as gas station tokens 🤪🤪

Have a nice Sunday !

Vinc'

it stops at first sentence: this was a legal tender.

 

There's no valid reason to override a monetary authority's decision and disown it.

Belgium issued it. The fact that other states or countries have not followed it should be irrelevant.

 

Putting the Belgian ECU in the same category as gas station tokens 🤪🤪

 

Have a nice Sunday !

Where are the gas station tokens??

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?r=&ct=exonumia&im1=&im2=&ttpe=y&cat=y&ru=&ca=6&no=&v=&i=&b=&ie=&u=&a=&dg=&m=&f=&t=&w=&mt=&g=&se=&d=&c=&wi=&sw=

All ECU should stay gathered imo

Belgium used Franc in that time. What value in Franc these had?

Sorry if you thought I was claiming anything aggressively.

I'm just making the observation that in the token category there are gas station tokens and Fantasy items.

The (belgian) ECU has been issued, hasn't it? This doesn't seem to be the case with any token.

Jarcek

Belgium used Franc in that time. What value in Franc these had?

The leaflet gives this reference value: The actual price will be established daily according to the London fixing.
Silver ECU: 500 F.B.

Here is the link to the Royal Decree concerning the official issue of the ECU.

28 AUGUST 1991. - Royal decree concerning the minting of 50 ECU and 5 ECU coins, dated 1991.
 

It stipulates that all coins covered by this decree are legal tender in Belgium.