International Forum VS English langue/tongue/language

Dear all non-English natives, and Brits and Americans, Canadian, Aussies and Kiwies, etc...

I guess this post will upset some folks, including my best Conservative American/British friend (that would be You, Phil!) ... and other respected Brits in in the UK, plus Kiwis, and Aussies...
Honestly speaking I am chewing on this topic for years, however I need to bring this up straighforwardly sooner or later.

I have been touching the issue in various posts earlier, but this time, I wish to make Xavier to come to some conclusion on this, if I fail in my suggestion I respect that too, but needless to say I wish to achieve my point, which is:

Rename the site from "ENGLISH" to "INTERNATIONAL"!

I understand that the French side of Numista is actually French, however, I trust this side of the thing is international, and it is the way it should be.
It is no offense to English-natives, but I think we, non-English natives have been not just outnumbering English natives, but also provide a more open entry point for newcomers.
It might be only me with that lingusitic background, and my mediocracy of using English as a 4th language I have learnt, but to my value system it would change a lot, if we would differentiate between the language and the nation.

My view on this is that we are international folks, using English as a language, but we are not English, so I clearly suggest to change the name of the site form "English" to "International", which actually uses "English language" as a language only.

I hope I am clear on this.

I think, Belgians , Algerians, Tunisians, Moroccans Swiss and half of Canada will not agree with "French side of Numista is actually French" , as most of them are on the French side :)

Partially, French language is also International for many nations , so , maybe better to say
"French-speaking side" and " English-speaking side"  ?  :)
yours
D

You might be right.
Few Morroccan friends would call themselves French, but that is the langue they speak. - So maybe it applies to the french forum as well, but it does not diminish the international cause on this side of the world.

EDIT: I do not care about the French side, that is not my problem.

I am focusing on the INTERNATIONAL site, here, my friend! - which keeps you and me alive

Calling it the International Forum makes sense to this American

Quote: "muygrandeoso"​Calling it the International Forum makes sense to this American

​thanks

Quote: "imreh"​You might be right.
​Few Morroccan friends would call themselves French, but that is the langue they speak. - So maybe it applies to the french forum as well, but it does not diminish the international cause on this side of the world.
​
​EDIT: I do not care about the French side, that is not my problem.
​
​I am focusing on the INTERNATIONAL site, here, my friend! - which keeps you and me alive
​

​so...



:)

yeap.... "Leaded bee" ...

"English" is so clearly referring to the language and not the overcrowded patch of real estate from Dover to Berwick that it really shouldn't need any explanation. I can't believe that anyone in the post Al Gore age would assume otherwise.

However it's obviously bothering you my dear Imreh so if a change would make a dear friend happy.... well why not? However "International Forum" just isn't going to work. It's going to lead to the assumption that there is no "official" language and posts can be made in any language and the result is going to be a Babel of confusion.

I don't think anyone would object if this half of the website was changed from "English" to "English Language" but "English Forum Where We Use The Magnificent Language Which Those Wonderful Englishmen Were Kind Enough To Share With Us As A Commonly Understood Lingua Franca" is a bit of a mouthful and not something I really want to type out for the sake of being inclusive.

I am full of respect for those people who have learned my language and appreciate it very much when they take the extra step of using it so that I'm included in the conversation.

The only argument in favor of using multiple languages is that it doesn't make sense for a speaker of, for example, Italian who is posting a message to a fellow Italian to be forced to use English. However that objection doesn't hold water because they could and should be using the PM system, not the public forum.

The situation just needs the application of common sense. The moderators should immediately remove any topic posted in a language other than English but where a non English user reverts to his mother tongue for a few lines to convey a particular thought shouldn't be a problem. Especially as most will post an brief English translation underneath which I find very respectful.

If you want a good example of what happens when common sense guidelines are not followed may I refer you to the ongoing fiasco of changing denominations from English into some Google Translate inspired "gibberish". The Islamic section of the database is now all but useless and will require a huge amount of work to restore it into a functional state. Let's not repeat the "Gunyah" mistake with the English forum.

English is a language.
International isn't a language.
It's good as it is now.

Quote: "kommodore"​English is a language.
​International isn't a language.
​It's good as it is now.

​Same.

i agree with kommodore

also, the words french and english are under the heading of language making it very clear

Quote: "kommodore"​English is a language.
​International isn't a language.
​It's good as it is now.

​I agree with kommodore.

The name of the forum is Forum everywhere. The languages we use here are only English and French, those are international languages because they are spoken in many countries. We, the members, aren't international, because we aren't country representatives.

By the way, sorry for my bad English

As others have clearly pointed out, English is a language that does not refer to any location on the planet.

The forum is already viewed as international, it would be a very naive opinion to think everyone here is From England or the USA or any other country where English is the primary language.

Including other posts I have seen from you collectively shows you seem to have a bit of hatred towards the English language and resentment the Forum priority language is English.

You are asking for something which already exists, The forum is international with English as the most universally understood language.

This topic is pointless and petty.

I don't believe this is related to this thread entirely, but here it goes.

I have seen posts written in Spanish or Portuguese. With a valid question, contribution or else. And a hoard of people especially from UK and US telling them this is an English only forum, to write in English and if they don't know English to use one of the many translate programs. Some of them never reply back and probably will never use Numista forum again.

You have to understand that maybe that person is an older person that doesn't speak English and will feel more comfortable writing in their own language or isn't very handy with a computer to translate stuf, I don't know (believe me they are many many people out there that can just turn on a computer and wish for the best. I've worked with HP and the area I worked with was the great state of Texas, Mississippi, Lousiana and Arkansas. I have seen and heard it all). So not everybody is tech savvy or maybe they are connected on their mobile device.

My point is, since we are an international community, why is English the ONLY language allowed. I mean if somebody is asking in Spanish, Portuguese or any other MAYOR languages, there will be plenty of people able to answer them in their native language. And I believe allowing this will make even more people participate on the forum. I'm sure many doesn't participate just because they aren't proficient in English and doesn't want to be ridiculed by some stranger on internet or for whatever other reason.

However I am also aware that if I write something in my own language Papiamento. I wouldn't get any reply. But in Spanish? Sure!

This is just my opinion on what an "international" forum must be all about and I believe this is the longest post I've ever written on here. By the way...please forgive me for my bad English

I must be missing the point here.....

I am English, I speak English, I would not go to a forum where the most common language is Russian, there may be the odd few who speak English there but I would still translate my question to get the best possible replies, I certainly would not take offence if they state I should ask in Russian.

In the last 6 months I have been here I have seen only one instance of "Use English, this is an English forum" and that was two people talking about a swap I assume, So why is it being referred to as if it is a daily occurrence?

It makes no sense at all.

I am going to KFC now and demand they make me a Big Mac.

Quote: "Fluke"Fluke
​I am going to KFC now and demand they make me a Big Mac.

​Or ask them is they serve chicken, that always pisses them off

Quote: "neilithic"​

Quote: "Fluke"Fluke
​​I am going to KFC now and demand they make me a Big Mac.

​​Or ask them is they serve chicken, that always pisses them off

​Do you know the Sphynx cat is no accident or result of breeding?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphynx_cat

Quote: "Fluke"​
​So why is it being referred to as if it is a daily occurrence?
​
​It makes no sense at all.
​

​I've been around much more than 6 month, my dear fluke. And at no point I mentioned to refer to it as a daily occurrence. But it does happen. It makes no sense to you but it does to me and I'm sure I'm not alone.

No offence but you have been a member since 2011 but your forum contribution is 1/3 of mine and I have been here 6 months.

So you want to make a change for something that very rarely occurs and doesn't actually cover what the real issue is that you all have? [sarcasm]That makes sense.[/sarcasm]

Believe me when I say I am not telling you to stop this request or to ask for it, My point is you are not going to get what it is that you seem to want, which is freedom to write in other languages without being told "This is English speaking forum only!" or "Coin entries should have the English associated name!", You will never change the fact the majority of members are English spoken which means anything on the website must remain English friendly to keep that user base.

If you have such a big problem with it then why don't you open up another forum catering for all other languages but not English?

I have always considered this forum international because it literally is a diverse number of nationalities who use it.

Quote: "demeykelly"​My point is, since we are an international community, why is English the ONLY language allowed. I mean if somebody is asking in Spanish, Portuguese or any other MAYOR languages, there will be plenty of people able to answer them in their native language. And I believe allowing this will make even more people participate on the forum. I'm sure many doesn't participate just because they aren't proficient in English and doesn't want to be ridiculed by some stranger on internet or for whatever other reason.

​I don't disagree with you demeykelly. But here is my example why I can't fully agree with you either. I have a few folks in my office that speak the same language as me (not English). But we never use it while in the office as it may be uncomfortable for people around us. Especially if we discuss a work-related topic as others may have their opinion on it and suggest a better answer or solution.

Similarly here. If one asks a question in English, even if it is not perfect, the possibility of getting an answer is much higher this way. Just like you mentioned your native language, you would not use it as the possibility of getting a good answer if any is very low.

Also, I believe "allowing" various languages in the same area will create quite a messy environment. I've seen quite a few forums having multiple areas for the main language (like we already have here) but also one area per language for any other language. If this is an option to be considered I'd suggest an option for users to actually explicitly make one (or some) of these areas visible through their profile/config (as I don't want to see all the other language areas besides those I can actually understand).

Quote: "demeykelly"My point is, since we are an international community, why is English the ONLY language allowed. I mean if somebody is asking in Spanish, Portuguese or any other MAYOR languages, there will be plenty of people able to answer them in their native language. And I believe allowing this will make even more people participate on the forum. I'm sure many doesn't participate just because they aren't proficient in English and doesn't want to be ridiculed by some stranger on internet or for whatever other reason.

I'm sorry Jacob. I totally disagree. When you would allow everybody to speak his own language here (or even only the MAJOR languages) the whole forum would be a chaos. And instead of attracting more people to the forum, you will lose a lot of others (and more than you will attract). When I see a new post and I click on it, and half of the time it's in a language I don't understand it won't take long before I don't click on it anymore and stop using the forum.

We have already the chance to chose between English and French. I don't mind there also would be a Spanish forum if there are enough candidates for it, or a Chinese or whatever language forum. But remember, the more you're going to divide the bigger the chance when you come with a question there will be no solution for it. So it is in everyone's benefit to stick together with a common language instead of dividing.
And for people who don't speak English/French at all or don't know how to use translation programs (because Jacob, on that point you are right, those people exist too), they can use PM's with fellow countrymen.
I know we might exclude some people and that's sad, but we need a common language, just like in aviation and the IT-world.

And concerning the initial question, it's like Dato Mikeladze reacted, the French site is as international as the English site, in a lot of nations French is a main language.
Besides Imreh, I never linked English here at the country but at the language, as almost everybody does. So your question is a little far fetched in the first place.

I don't believe a separate Spanish or other language is necessary. But my thinking was more in line of allowing multi-language for this forum.

However I'm sorry, I didn't thought of it being chaotic since I'm personally used to multiple-languages popping in front of me and don't get bothered or annoyed by it. But now I can see how it can be a nuisance to some.

The only reason I mentioned this was that I believe that we can be an even more inclusive community and don't need to shut down and scare away people with language barriers. Remember that language translators work both ways, just saying. And yes sending a PM directly works, but you wouldn't get an open forum discussion with participation of others.

This was just my opinion of an international forum. Not just a diverse number of nationalities speaking English-Only...but also in their native language if needed.

Now I will sit quietly and look at my other window

Essor Prof's post above is almost exactly the same as what my previous reply started out as, I had to re-write it constantly for fear of sounding brutally raw and offending those who believe this unrealistic request should be done, I have a tendency to be very over opinionated but none the less, it is my opinion in its "no frills" form.

in the end I deleted it all and rewrote it in a manner trying not to offend.

Demey, the fact still remains this is discussed LIKE (hypothetical) it is a daily occurrence when someone types in a language other than English, and then they are chased away with (hypothetical) torches and pitchforks. Very rarely it happens and like I said, in 6 months I have seen this happen once, that means the odds are staggeringly high of it being unlikely to repeat often enough for there to be some kind of point to the request being asked.

Question, why should the French forum be called "French" but the English forum be called "International"?

Surely if you want to post in Spanish, Russian, Swedish or Swahili it doesn't matter if you post on the French forum or the English forum. Why single out the English one?

The real question should be - is it easier for one person to copy his text into Google Translate so that the other 49,999 can understand it, or for that one person to type away in any language they feel like and have the other 49,999 copying and pasting the text in Google Translate?

The answer is so obvious even a munt could understand it.

I just can't believe that in 2015 that there are people who don't understand how to Ctrl C and Ctrl V or have no right mouse button. Even if we accept that there are such people, they are unlikely to be able to turn on a computer and connect it to the internet.

I've made a proposal for an in-page translator. Users who are not fluent in English could simply translate each page into whatever language they default to and type messages in their mother tongue and convert them to English before posting. Problem........ what problem? Surely that's a better solution than making a meaningless change to the forum name.

Since the whole "Coin names in catalogues" fiasco started up until now makes me feel strongly that Imreh has developed (or maybe always had?) a case of linguicism, a type of discrimination towards another language or how people communicate.

It seemed that way back then, I immediately thought it again upon reading the first post here but refrained from mentioning it so as to not spark another drama infested debate through somebodies feelings/pride getting hurt. The only reason I state it now is because I am not the only one who can see this isn't about a website label, It does not take much brainpower to see that.

Imreh has always pushed for change fluke. He doesn't always go about it the right way and his 'cultural' cutting points can be misconstrued as rudeness but his intentions are good.

On the language note it is labelled language but I do see this as a multinational site anyway.

There's also poor BAM above to think about. He's the moderator of the English forum, I don't know how many languages he speaks, but it certainly isn't every single language that people speak on this site, and there have been incidents of people abusing other members in their own languages. This was in the "Abkhazia is Georgia" thread


7doktor:

"Ха, наивный чукотский грузин! В "Спортлото" еще жалобу напиши!. Абхазия-это Грузия, Приднестровье -это Молдавия, Донбасс - это Украина...бла-бла
Жалкие лимитрофы, веками ютившиеся под сенью могучего русского орла, вдруг возомнившие себя чем-то, захотевшие откусить от того, что не принадлежало им веками, предавшие покровителя за туземные бусы. А теперь вы должны расплачиваться и каяться (особенно народцу с президентом-нарком, убившему российских миротворцев в Цхинвале...Пожалели наши танки вас тогда. Ну да русский народ отходчивый..) Ну и плюс геополитика, нефть-газ сами понимаете. Так, что живите уж пока так. "

Dato Mikeladze:

"Translation of 7Doctors pearl
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"hah, naive Chukchi Georgian ! Lets open a case in " SportLoto" as well! Sure! - Abkhazia is Georgia, Transnistria is Moldova, Donbass is Ukraine ... bla-bla-bla..
Pitiful Limitrophes , who nestled for a centuries under wings of streghtful Russian Eagle, and suddenly decided that they are SOMEONE , who decided to nipp off a piece, which was a bigger than their mouth! Those who betrayed their Patron for foreign necklaces ! Now You must pay for it and repent! So-called "nation" with drug-abusive president, which killed Russian peacekeepers in Tskhinvali! Our tanks put pity on you in 2008! Yes, Russians are merciful// So , now live as You live... "
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Chukchi" - Eastern branch of Eskimos, mostly live in Russian north - far-east/ The Word " Chukchi" mostly uses by Russians like 7Doktor to offend and underline a primitive nation/ group of people or person. In Russia is shameful to be a chukcha .

7doktor, Your country must be proud of You! and, Chukchi, I think, most of all ."

Nice thinking neilithic, another very good argument to stick to one language.

Having the English forum and site as the default makes it "international" enough.

I agree in part with demeykelly and imreh. I wish there were room for other launguges and welcome all nations. Its too bad that we cant have a few other laungue forums. But the work this would take would be large.

Quote: "bam777"​Imreh has always pushed for change fluke. He doesn't always go about it the right way and his 'cultural' cutting points can be misconstrued as rudeness but his intentions are good.
​
​On the language note it is labelled language but I do see this as a multinational site anyway.

​I understand but it isn't change he is pushing for as such, He dislikes how English is dominating the English language Numista Hub. as Neil pointed out, there is no demanding the French forum should be overhauled and called international as well.

He isn't asking for "more" of any language to even it up for other nationalities, he is asking for English directly to be reduced or made to be less important, in some cases completely removed (as stated in the coin name drama thread). I certainly do not see his views as rude, he doesn't like the fact English is dominating the website, his wording is directly referencing certain things should not be using English, its linguicism

International means all nationalities pass through it, it is already perfectly clear the site and forum is within those boundaries and already qualifies as International.

If it is needed there is nothing to stop extra categories to be added to the forum in other languages and could easily be asked for.

Making it an international forum will make something strange: all languages would be linked to the English version of the website. Doesn't seem logical for me . Another idea would be to create other language versions of the website, but this would be a lot of work for Xavier, maybe too much...

Anyway I've seen sometimes messages in foreign languages (like in ID section) and we're quite comprehensive as people may not speak either English or French.

Imre is a strange one,

He's always been stirring things up, having a go at the creator of the site and the Numista team. Then November last year he vowed to leave the forum to concentrate on his Facebook group where he wouldn't have to be banned, deleted or censored for speaking his mind. https://en.numista.com/forum/topic34901.html

Then when the Hamster joined his facebook group and started stirring things up there, Imre came charging back onto Numista to DEMAND that the Hamster be censored, deleted and banned from this site (Oh the irony). He even went as far as to criticize Xavier for what he viewed as a light punishment https://en.numista.com/forum/topic43585.html . Let's get this straight, Hamster was banned from this site for something he'd done on another site. Personally I find this logic flawed. If I did something wrong at my badminton club, I wouldn't expect people to show up at my tennis club and demand that they ban me from that club, it's just crazy. I don't like the Hamster, but I think he was hard done-by in this instance.

And now Imre's decided to come back on here trying to stir things up again. I guess being able to say what he wanted on his Facebook forum was getting a bit boring and he was searching for another argument. Best to just ignore him.

Nah, I like Imre. He's a [sometimes ] nice cynic with some good/ eccentric ideas. This one definitely falls into the eccentric category - I don't agree with it for the number of good reasons posted here!

He also has excellent leadership skills and work ethic - just look at his contributions to the catalog! :
1417 coins added, 4325 years added, 1348 coins edited, 1491 years edited

Numista is a far better place with my dear Imreh than it ever could be without him.

I have enjoyed many long and interesting conversations with him across a wide range of topics, and even those things which we disagree on are more in the way of a civilized dissent than a public pissing contest. We have a great deal in common, we've been to many of the same places and share an appreciation for life's finer things. If a committed multiculturalist and an ardent nationalist can find enough things to agree on then maybe there's hope for the world.

I think he is 100% wrong on this subject and with the denominations debacle but that's just my opinion and maybe I'm wrong and he's right? Either way we'll remain friends. I think that's how life is supposed to work.

So true, agreed!

What does leadership skills and ethic have to do with contributions?

Eccentric is "strange or unusual", this is a sour point blank attack.

He is a troll.

Nothing, I'm discussing Imre in general with Neil. The idea is eccentric, but you don't need to attack him for it! And anyway, eccentric ideas are the ones that change the world most of the time!

I don't see the problem.
The French forum is using French, and the English forum is using English.

far from everyone on the French forum is from France, and far from everyone on the English forum have English as their first language. but still, these are the languages that are used, and therefore I reckon it's a good idea to call the French and English. but that's me.

This is a place where many people of different personalities meet, and it's going to be impossible to get along with absolutely everyone as different personalities collide. Personally I have no time for people that want to constantly rock the boat and sneer at those that are happy with the status quo.

But that is getting off the topic of the question. here are my responses to the initial statement that we change the name of the site from "English" to "International", which actually uses "English language" as a language only."

Point 1. Renaming the forum "International" would just give non English speakers the notion that any language is OK for posting in. The language chosen for the forum, as Imre pointed out himself, is English, we have an English speaking moderator, Google translate is not perfect but enough to give you the gist of what people are trying to say.

Point 2. Why should we segregate all non French speakers into one forum? If you change the English side to International but leave the French side as French then anyone who is not French has to post in the international side. It is just as easy to translate into French as it is to translate to English and people who do not speak either French or English should know that it is fine to post in either forum, not restrict them just to the English side.

Point 3. I'm sure we probably have members from Belgium, Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, French Canada, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, Côte d'Ivoire, Democratic Republic of Congo, Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Guinea, Haiti, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Mali, Monaco, Niger, New Caledonia etc etc etc where French is a main language, so there is as much case for renaming the French forum "international". The name of the forum is the language that it is expected users post in, not a reflection of where they're from.

attack him? you mean react to his attack on English.

it is not eccentric in the slightest.

eccentric would be more along the lines of having a link on both English and French forums that will direct them to an international page where all and any languages can be used with freedom regardless of how congested it may get with multiple topics and languages.

Not just come in and flatten the English site into that, which is what is suggested here and is what the problem with it in my opinion is, not the actual idea behind it
I get the idea of an international site and think even though it is a very good idea in theory, the practicality of it is not feasible, but why does the English site have to be what gets flattened to make way for it?

I have a last suggestion: creating an international section shared by both forums. This is technically easy to do as it's already implemented for the referee section. This space may be the free place for all languages. Some members may help in translating in either English and French, and may be like a "language embassy" for people unable to speak one of the Numista main languages.

We can call it the Ghetto Forum.

It sounds so much nicer than "Sink Option".

Quote: "pnightingale"​We can call it the Ghetto Forum.
​
​It sounds so much nicer than "Sink Option".
​

​How nice of you to refer to it as Ghetto. The slums of the minorities, that's unbelievable.

First I would like to say , I respect all of you guy's and gal's. You make numista what it is. But I really don't see what the big deal is. We have one forum that uses English language and one forum that uses French language. Why are we getting mad at each other? Both forums are very international. Just look at this topic, how many different country's are talking in it. How many different language just in this topic. yes we need to help people who have issues with English. I think Phil is right a translation box would help. Were someone could write in there language and hit a box and have it translated. Right in the new post , and post reply page.

Quote: "demeykelly"​

Quote: "pnightingale"​We can call it the Ghetto Forum.
​​
​​It sounds so much nicer than "Sink Option".
​​

​​How nice of you to refer to it as Ghetto. The slums of the minorities, that's unbelievable.

​I think in your rush to be fashionably offended you have missed the point entirely.

Quote: "ALLRED1950"​ First I would like to say , I respect all of you guy's and gal's. You make numista what it is. But I really don't see what the big deal is. We have one forum that uses English language and one forum that uses French language. Why are we getting mad at each other? Both forums are very international. Just look at this topic, how many different country's are talking in it. How many different language just in this topic. yes we need to help people who have issues with English. I think Phil is right a translation box would help. Were someone could write in there language and hit a box and have it translated. Right in the new post , and post reply page.

​Exactly - this whole "International Forum" is a bad idea. However, Imre shouldn't be ridiculed and attacked and lambasted for suggesting it. Certainly, you shouldn't be dragging up his past "sins"!!

Yes a like Imre , He is a great person , and great coin collector. And get us to talk about things
But really who speaks English, people in the UK, Or the US,or Canada, or New Zealand. There are all different. Even in the same country they are differences. English slang I think is a big problem. I may say something or do something,to me is fine. But to someone else may not be very nice. It is what it is. Just remember we are here because we love coins,right. Or don't sweat the small stuff.

Oh one more thing does your aluminum have color , or does it have no colur. Yes I miss- spell a lot. It is time for sleep, you al have a good day or night.

Esperanto is the way forward now!

Quote: "bam777"​Esperanto is the way forward now!

​That would be a matter of opinion ...

babel fish for everyone

Quote: "neilithic"​babel fish for everyone
​
​

​Douglas Adams - a sorely missed genius.

you have any dabal fish.

Quote: "pnightingale"​​​Douglas Adams - a sorely missed genius.

​... and if anyone ever asks you anything, the answer is 42!

Quote: "radrick007"​

Quote: "pnightingale"​​​Douglas Adams - a sorely missed genius.

​​... and if anyone ever asks you anything, the answer is 42!
​

​But then you need to know what the question is

Quote: "neilithic"​

Quote: "radrick007"​
​

Quote: "pnightingale"​​​Douglas Adams - a sorely missed genius.

​​​... and if anyone ever asks you anything, the answer is 42!
​​

​​But then you need to know what the question is

​That was the answer that sparked the late SROWE's public meltdown, he thought it was some kind of personal insult and blew his top. If only the poor guy was a bit more widely read he might still be here. Sad innit?

English stands for the language, nothing else. You select English if you want to see the website in English, and French if you want to see it in French. The question is not where you come from but which language you want to read and write. Very good arguments in this sens have been exposed in previous messages.

And finally just a cheap shot to do with language. One of my friends showed me this today and got a good laugh out of me

Quote: "neilithic"​And finally just a cheap shot to do with language. One of my friends showed me this today and got a good laugh out of me
​
​

​Looks like a PhotoShop to me but never the less funny.

Quote: "Xavier"​English stands for the language, nothing else. You select English if you want to see the website in English, and French if you want to see it in French.

​Thank you Xavier. I was wondering when this petty infantile drivel would end ...