BRING BACK THE COMMAS!!! [solved]

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This message aims at: suggesting an idea to improve Numista

Status: Implemented
Upvotes: 22
Downvotes: 23

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I think Numista has been seriously degraded by the sudden removal of the commas in mintages and coin titles. I think such a massive change should have been consulted with a wider group of people, i.e. the users. I know there are arguments to say it is personal preference, however the mintages look dam ugly now and I'm sorry if you don't like the English method of using commas, but it's been around for centuries because it works! This removal of a fine grammatical syntax is nearly as bad as the movement to remove apostrophes in words....

Please consider putting the commas back into our much loved website.
I would only say yes to the mintage/print run numbers for space reasons.
No for the title dots or commas look like shit in that large fond.
Whilst many of us may be familiar with commas in long numbers, it's not an international standard. Many countries use full stops in such numbers, with commas indicating decimals. As a consequence, the agreed scientific standard is to use spaces to separate groups of three digits and the full stop for decimals. Luckily, this is what's used on most banknotes anyway. The only circulating example I can think of that uses a comma is the US $10,000 bill. There must be something used to mark out long numbers (having nothing is a disaster) and the space is best compromise.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
I would vote for the use of spaces as well.
From the current ISO standards:

Numbers consisting of long sequences of digits can be made more readable by separating them into groups, preferably groups of three, separated by a small space.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_31-0#Numbers)
Referee for Spain, Iberia (ancient), Suebi Kingdom and Visigothic Kingdom
I have expressed my opinion before, but with this being yet another related thread, I will express it again. (8

I agree with bringing the commas back. The guidelines say to use English, and commas are standard in English.

And of course, different sources will give different standards. ISO, being international, suggests using spaces; Oxford, being specifically for English, suggests using commas. It all depends on where you look.
Quote: "Idolenz"​I would only say yes to the mintage/print run numbers for space reasons.
​No for the title dots or commas look like shit in that large fond.
​This I agree on to 100%. No commas in title. The rest, I don't really care.
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
Commas are the standard for expressing amounts of 1 Thousand & higher in English.

They should be used - even in the titles of each denomination.

Aidan.
Quote: "BCNumismatics"​Commas are the standard for expressing amounts of 1 Thousand & higher in English.



​Why should we go after English standards? Here commas are used for decimals.
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
Quote: "BCNumismatics"​Commas are the standard for expressing amounts of 1 Thousand & higher in English.

​They should be used - even in the titles of each denomination.

​Aidan.
​The problem is that countries using English don't always apply this. Look at the Zimbabwean hyperinflation notes. Not a comma to be seen. The titles should reflect what's on the note or coin, a standardized format can be used in the "value in word form" field and the number without any punctuation in the "value in figure form". Where this really matters is the mintage. Unless regional settings can be made that allow us to choose between comma, dot or space, space is the internationally agreed standard. Remember that billions of people will read 1,000 as one, not one thousand.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Quote: "ngdawa"
Quote: "BCNumismatics"​Commas are the standard for expressing amounts of 1 Thousand & higher in English.

​​Wvy should we go after English standards? Here commas are used for decimals.

Commas are internationally standard in English.

Using a comma instead of a decimal point is a very European thing - except in Ireland, Gibraltar, the U.K., the Channel Islands, & Cyprus.

We write '1,000' to say '1 Thousand', yet in Germany, they would write '1.000', which we regard as being pretty strange in English.

Aidan.
Quote: "BCNumismatics"​​​
​Commas are internationally standard in English.

​To clarify, are you talking about a particular formal international standards document, or just common usage?

There is a formal international standard, recommended by the US National Institute of Standards and Technology, which is the form Numista is currently using. I'm not aware of any international standard using commas, but I would be interested in hearing about any that exist.

But common English usage doesn't make things easy for all Numista users. People will come to Numista who don't speak English or French if there is no similar resource in their native language. We want Numista to be usable by those visitors. That is part of the reason using spaces as thousands separators and for using just a number ("1000") for the quantity instead of words ("one thousand") in the face value field. (That isn't the only reason for those decisions.)

The goal is to make Numista usable by a wide audience, not the preferred form for a smaller group.
Quote: "bjherbison"​But common English usage doesn't make things easy for all Numista users. People will come to Numista who don't speak English or French if there is no similar resource in their native language. We want Numista to be usable by those visitors. That is part of the reason using spaces as thousands separators and for using just a number ("1000") for the quantity instead of words ("one thousand") in the face value field. (That isn't the only reason for those decisions.)

​The goal is to make Numista usable by a wide audience, not the preferred form for a smaller group.
​Well said! I also back up inclusion and accessibility! It's the main reason this change was implemented.
Quote: "Sulfur"Oxford, being specifically for English, suggests using commas.
What do you mean by "Oxford"? You've referenced before "The University of Oxford Style Guide" which indeed recommends "," for "writing and formatting documents written by staff on behalf of the University" (page 1). They specifically say it's used for their own branding, not for public use and not meant to compete with the professional writing guides. I don't see how this is relevant to Numista.

The Oxford University Press, who publish the Oxford English Dictionary and the Oxford Style Manual, recommend spaces in "texts where numbers are frequently used".
Quote: "ceh2019"The titles should reflect what's on the note or coin,
​No. The lettering should reflect what's on the note or coin but the coin title should be the denomination according to a specified standard. Which standard doesn't matter, as long as it's always and everywhere the same one.
Quote: "bjherbison"​​There is a formal international standard, recommended by the US National Institute of Standards and Technology, which is the form Numista is currently using. I'm not aware of any international standard using commas, but I would be interested in hearing about any that exist.

​But common English usage doesn't make things easy for all Numista users. People will come to Numista who don't speak English or French if there is no similar resource in their native language. We want Numista to be usable by those visitors. That is part of the reason using spaces as thousands separators and for using just a number ("1000") for the quantity instead of words ("one thousand") in the face value field. (That isn't the only reason for those decisions.)

​The goal is to make Numista usable by a wide audience, not the preferred form for a smaller group.
​Hear hear! Very well phrased.
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
Where the font size is large enough spaces are OK enough to be bearable I. E. The titles of banknotes. However in the mintages where the font size is alot smaller it's ridiculous to be able to count the number of zeros.

Some compromise would be welcome. Let's be pragmatic about this.
Quote: "Essor Prof"
Quote: "ceh2019"The titles should reflect what's on the note or coin,

​​No. The lettering should reflect what's on the note or coin but the coin title should be the denomination according to a specified standard. Which standard doesn't matter, as long as it's always and everywhere the same one.

​Alright, let me put it another way. The titles must reflect what's on the note or coin. Otherwise they are pointless and misleading. Remember that the title will be seen before the full page has been opened. The correct information has to be displayed there, otherwise many users simply won't reach the correct entry. Others have pointed out how important it is for this site to reach as wide an audience as possible. This is part of achieving that goal. Applying a single, region-specific standard will instead alienate many.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Quote: "ceh2019"​​​Alright, let me put it another way. The titles must reflect what's on the note or coin.
​I do not quite agree with this.

If we did exactly what was on the note or coin, we would have an abundance of titles missing denominations or not being transliterated. There must be some interpretting involved in the titles.

But with that being said, when it comes to commas versus spaces in numbers, I definitely do not see this as a problem--it is the punctuation we are talking about, and not the spelling of a word. This is more of a format/style issue, which would vary based on the individual sources And because this is the English side of Numista, using commas would work here.
Obviously if the denomination is missing, we must give one but how can any catalogue hope to succeed if it starts editing its source material? Our job is not to correct mistakes (as we see them) or enforce consistency upon the coins and banknotes. The world is messy. Our job is to record that mess accurately. Once that is done, the patterns which do exist will emerge without any need for editing.
Imagine if von Linné had decided zebras looked awful and just classified them as a breed of horse rather than a separate species?
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Quote: "ceh2019"​​Alright, let me put it another way. The titles must reflect what's on the note or coin.
​Wow, that would be terrible! Imagine the mess in the catalogue.

This title would then be 300, and here the title would be DREI MARK.
Here's 1 KR, this one is 1 KRONA, and this one would be 1 EN KRONA.
How about these 1 and 2? Looks good?

And don't forget all the millions of none Latin based alphabets, like Thaana, Devanagari, Cyrillic and Geʽez, just to name a few.

Sorry mate, but I must downvote this moment of madness demand.
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
Quote: "ngdawa"
Quote: "ceh2019"​​Alright, let me put it another way. The titles must reflect what's on the note or coin.
​​Wow, that would be terrible! Imagine the mess in the catalogue.

​This title would then be 300, and here the title would be DREI MARK.
​Here's 1 KR, this one is 1 KRONA, and this one would be 1 EN KRONA.
​How about these 1 and 2? Looks good?

​And don't forget all the millions of none Latin based alphabets, like Thaana, Devanagari, Cyrillic and Geʽez, just to name a few.

​Sorry mate, but I must downvote this moment of madness demand.

​Perhaps you failed to appreciate the word "reflect"? However, all your examples are ill-chosen. The first is clearly "3.00", not "300", the second is a translation of Drei (although including the written number would be an obvious improvement to recognition for those who don't speak German), the Swedish examples all say "1 Krona" or an abbreviation of that and the last two, as I said, need the denomination adding when absent. We of course need to transliterate non-Latin scripts but we should be moving towards including the original lettering in titles to broaden the accessibility of Numista. Unless, of course, we want to restrict it to a North-American and Western-European audience?
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Quote: "Sulfur"And because this is the English side of Numista, using commas would work here.
​What part of international makes it English?

Thus is the INTER-NATIONAL side of Numista, where English is used as a lingua franca. As part of the Numista team, you must recognise and respect that.
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
Quote: "ceh2019"​​Alright, let me put it another way. The titles must reflect what's on the note or coin.
Quote: "ceh2019"[...] as I said, need the denomination adding when absent. We of course need to transliterate non-Latin scripts [...]
​So, we transliterate titles and add denomination when missing? That would leave us pretty much where we are now, so I don't really see the problem.
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
Quote: "ngdawa"
Quote: "Sulfur"And because this is the English side of Numista, using commas would work here.
​​What part of international makes it English?

​Thus is the INTER-NATIONAL side of Numista, where English is used as a lingua franca. As part of the Numista team, you must recognise and respect that.
​I think this goes to the heart of the problem. Ngdawa sees the English language version of Numista as the international side (as opposed to the French version). Perhaps that's how it was originally envisaged (I'm still quite new here) and it's a very nice way of putting it, but it's not what we see time and time again when these issues are discussed. It's always about enforcing English customary usage across the board. That has to stop and the issue of commas versus dots or spaces is just one instance. I would propose embracing ngdawa's notion of this being the international version, a version where we use English because it's broadly understood but we respect the local languages and customary uses of the countries' whose coins and notes we're describing.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Quote: "ceh2019"​​I think this goes to the heart of the problem. Ngdawa sees the English language version of Numista as the international side (as opposed to the French version). Perhaps that's how it was originally envisaged (I'm still quite new here) and it's a very nice way of putting it, but it's not what we see time and time again when these issues are discussed. It's always about enforcing English customary usage across the board. That has to stop and the issue of commas versus dots or spaces is just one instance. I would propose embracing ngdawa's notion of this being the international version, a version where we use English because it's broadly understood but we respect the local languages and customary uses of the countries' whose coins and notes we're describing.
Cheers mate! :)

As it is now, everyone understands the denomination in the titles, so there's really no problem.

About commas, I can tell a funny story that is not funny at all. But still is. Kind of.
A Swedish exchange student (not me) was studying in New York. One day she was to give a check to someone (I don't know the details here). On the check she wrote 10,00 Dollars, which means Ten Dollars to a Swede. The machine correct what it thought was an error and you can imagine the shock when the student's shopping was later denied and the account history shiwed a huge payment which had cleansed the account.
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
I rarely visit the French side, but I see both the French and English sides as international versions. People not fluent in either will go to one or the other depending on their background.

Each side should use one particular language correctly (which makes it easier to understand in translation) but depend on the language as little as possible. That's why "1 000 000" is used instead of "one million", why standard terms are used consistently, why measurements use international standard names and abbreviations, and why text is augmented by symbols (as in "Coin alignment ↑↓" or "Frappe monnaie ↑↓").
May I suggest that the discussion of titles be split off of this discussion and into a separate topic.

I also suggest that the contributors review the current guidelines and focus the discussion on weaknesses in the current guidelines or disagreements with the current guidelines.
Quote: "bjherbison"​May I suggest that the discussion of titles be split off of this discussion and into a separate topic.

​I also suggest that the contributors review the current guidelines and focus the discussion on weaknesses in the current guidelines or disagreements with the current guidelines.
​I'm afraid this is part of a bigger issue. I agree that the commas issue is primarily about mintages and appears to have been solved (though not to everyone's satisfaction) by the use of spaces, but we do need to address the issue of accessibility. If both language versions are meant to be accessible to all, an awful lot of work is required.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
The tea water has cooled tremendously. Just use ## ### ##9!
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Quote: "ngdawa"​Thus is the INTER-NATIONAL side of Numista, where English is used as a lingua franca. As part of the Numista team, you must recognise and respect that.
People can use this site from all over the world, but the language of this side is still English, just like how the language of the French side is still French. I cannot see one as being more international than the other, and while you could call both international, that does not change the languages that are used.

Not only does the very first guideline specify English, but there was a recent discussion about naming ruling authorities, and how we are using exonyms rather than endonyms. I do not necessarily agree with that; however, if we are switching to exonyms, that would mean there are some fields that are more English than others, even though this is the English side. If this was truly an international side, I would expect more local varieties used across all fields, like going with endonyms.

-----

With that being said, there are actually three sides of Numista: French, English (British), and English (American)--which form of English viewed depends on what your browser setting says. I imagine it would be difficult to code the numbers to change based off browser settings, but perhaps it could be possible to change the display of numbers based on an option selectable in the profile settings?

That way, the numbers would be personalized--whether you want to see commas, spaces, decimals, or apostrophes would be completely your choice. I am not sure how easy something like that would be to implement, but... that would at least be a compromise.
Quote: "ceh2019"
Quote: "ngdawa"

Quote: "Sulfur"And because this is the English side of Numista, using commas would work here.
​​​What part of international makes it English?
​​
​​Thus is the INTER-NATIONAL side of Numista, where English is used as a lingua franca. As part of the Numista team, you must recognise and respect that.
​​I think this goes to the heart of the problem. Ngdawa sees the English language version of Numista as the international side (as opposed to the French version). Perhaps that's how it was originally envisaged (I'm still quite new here) and it's a very nice way of putting it, but it's not what we see time and time again when these issues are discussed. It's always about enforcing English customary usage across the board. That has to stop and the issue of commas versus dots or spaces is just one instance. I would propose embracing ngdawa's notion of this being the international version, a version where we use English because it's broadly understood but we respect the local languages and customary uses of the countries' whose coins and notes we're describing.
​Some very good points there👍

Let me throw a dice into the middle of this of course everyone will get into some language barrier issues one thing would make sense in one country and would sound gibberish in other countries.

After a brief search on the internet English is the third most spoken language in the world after Mandarin Chinese and Spanish (so a Chinese and Spanish Numista would be helpful) and that excludes the sub categories of English for example US English is different from U.K. English or Indian English is different from Jamaican English.

I’m not here to dictate (imagine dear/supreme leader WC:O;)) what everyone is saying but I just wanted to throw a dice into the middle just to get some points across.

Have a good day, night, morning or evening where ever you are in the world

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers
https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/countries_by_languages.htm



Also please add commas to the mintages because it comes up on mobile as very questionable phone numbers (what I posted earlier).
Hi to whoever is reading this. Did you know that TYPEWRITER (on a QWERTY keyboard) is the longest word you can type using only the letters on one row of the keyboard.
Quote: "ceh2019"​​I think this goes to the heart of the problem. Ngdawa sees the English language version of Numista as the international side (as opposed to the French version). Perhaps that's how it was originally envisaged (I'm still quite new here) and it's a very nice way of putting it, but it's not what we see time and time again when these issues are discussed. It's always about enforcing English customary usage across the board. That has to stop and the issue of commas versus dots or spaces is just one instance. I would propose embracing ngdawa's notion of this being the international version, a version where we use English because it's broadly understood but we respect the local languages and customary uses of the countries' whose coins and notes we're describing.
Cheers mate! :)

As it is now, everyone understands the denomination in the titles, so there's really no problem.

About commas, I can tell a funny story that is not funny at all. But still is. Kind of.
A Swedish exchange student (not me) was studying in New York. One day she was to give a check to someone (I don't know the details here). On the check she wrote 10,00 Dollars, which means Ten Dollars to a Swede. The machine correct what it thought was an error and you can imagine the shock when the student's shopping was later denied and the account history shiwed a huge payment which had cleansed the account.
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
After fifteen years why did the commas become an issue and who decided to remove them?
Quote: "SRV5490"​After fifteen years why did the commas become an issue and who decided to remove them?
​They started to disappear few years back, but sure, for some it's sudden. (8
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
In the past 2012 onwards I have seen no separation in titles the most (>10000), followed by (>10 000) and (>10,000) in roughly the same amount.
I think mintages was the obvious one for me, when they got changed it made it harder to see as they are small.

Maybe I should change this post to be about the mintage figures? Because clearly anyone who uses decimals as separators would know that a mintage is not half a coin or a 3rd of a coin as mintages are integers.
spaces, please!
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Personally I prefer commas in the mintage lines. Just looks weird to me with spaces. But I can live with it and will get used to it I suppose.

Mike
Referee for Australia & New Zealand Coins & Exonumia, Papua New Guinea & Cocos & Keeling Islands Coins & Australian Banknotes. I Collect > Australia, UK & Dependancies, NZ Sets, USA & Euros plus Misc Exonumia.
if you print with spaces you use less ink:D
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Commas are not standard in English. Commas are just frequently used but spaces are the official SI standard.

Why can't this be made into an option like the imperial and metric measures are? Then everyone would be able to choose a number format they are used to.
Good suggestion
Quote: "andrewdotcoza"​Why can't this be made into an option like the imperial and metric measures are? Then everyone would be able to choose a number format they are used to.
​Is this really that big of an issue, though?
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
Quote: "ngdawa"
Quote: "andrewdotcoza"​Why can't this be made into an option like the imperial and metric measures are? Then everyone would be able to choose a number format they are used to.
​​Is this really that big of an issue, though?
​Well not to me. I'm a no-commas guy and I always find commas quite jarring. But I'm used to seeing the format I don't "like". Obviously the commas people aren't. And as for the question of whether it is that big of an issue, this is an easy thing to do. Xavier is already formatting currencies and weights on coin pages based on user settings. I'd ask the same question you asked of anyone arguing against making number formats a profile setting.
Quote: "bjherbison"
Quote: "BCNumismatics"​​​
​​Commas are internationally standard in English.

​​To clarify, are you talking about a particular formal international standards document, or just common usage?

​There is a formal international standard, recommended by the US National Institute of Standards and Technology, which is the form Numista is currently using. I'm not aware of any international standard using commas, but I would be interested in hearing about any that exist.

​But common English usage doesn't make things easy for all Numista users. People will come to Numista who don't speak English or French if there is no similar resource in their native language. We want Numista to be usable by those visitors. That is part of the reason using spaces as thousands separators and for using just a number ("1000") for the quantity instead of words ("one thousand") in the face value field. (That isn't the only reason for those decisions.)

​The goal is to make Numista usable by a wide audience, not the preferred form for a smaller group.


I use British Commonwealth English - not American!

Aidan.
According to this Wikipedia Page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dezimaltrennzeichen

Decimals seperations with a dot are used in.

Australia, Botswana, China, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Ghana, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Hongkong, India, Ireland, Israel, Japan, Korea (North and South), Malaysia, Malta, Mexiko, Namibia, Nepal, Nicaragua, Nigeria, New Zealand, Pakistan, Panama, Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, United Kingdom, USA, Canada (English speaking part), parts of Switzerland.

Decimals seperation with a comma used by:

Albania, Andorra, Argentinia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, Denmark, Germany, Ecuador, Estonia, Färöer, Finnland, France, Georgia, Greece, Greenland, Indonesia, Iceland, Italy, Colombia, Kosovo, Croatia, Cuba, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Moldawia, Netherlands, Northmacedonia, Norway, Austria, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Rromania, Russia, Sweden, Serbia, Simbabwe, Slowakia, Slowenia, Spain, South Africa, Czech Republic, Turkey, Ukraine, Hungary, Uruguay, Venezuela, Belarus, Canada (French part), parts of Switzerland

The use of a cecimal by dot or comma is also a worldwide international standart set by ISO 80000-1


Three ways to group the number ten thousand with digit group separators.
1) Space, the internationally recommended thousands separator.
2) Period (or full stop), the thousands separator used in many non-English speaking countries.
3) Comma, the thousands separator used in most English-speaking countries


I would very much appreciate if that could be set in Account options as to which standard you would like to have it set.

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Quote: "apuking"​According to this Wikipedia Page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dezimaltrennzeichen

​Decimals seperations with a dot are used in.

​Australia, Botswana, China, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Ghana, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Hongkong, India, Ireland, Israel, Japan, Korea (North and South), Malaysia, Malta, Mexiko, Namibia, Nepal, Nicaragua, Nigeria, New Zealand, Pakistan, Panama, Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, United Kingdom, USA, Canada (English speaking part), parts of Switzerland.

​Decimals seperation with a comma used by:

​Albania, Andorra, Argentinia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, Denmark, Germany, Ecuador, Estonia, Färöer, Finnland, France, Georgia, Greece, Greenland, Indonesia, Iceland, Italy, Colombia, Kosovo, Croatia, Cuba, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Moldawia, Netherlands, Northmacedonia, Norway, Austria, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Rromania, Russia, Sweden, Serbia, Simbabwe, Slowakia, Slowenia, Spain, South Africa, Czech Republic, Turkey, Ukraine, Hungary, Uruguay, Venezuela, Belarus, Canada (French part), parts of Switzerland

​The use of a cecimal by dot or comma is also a worldwide international standart set by ISO 80000-1


​Three ways to group the number ten thousand with digit group separators.
​1) Space, the internationally recommended thousands separator.
​2) Period (or full stop), the thousands separator used in many non-English speaking countries.
​3) Comma, the thousands separator used in most English-speaking countries


​I would very much appreciate if that could be set in Account options as to which standard you would like to have it set.

​The other way round
COMMA in english speaking countries, where the decimal point is full point
FULL point where the decimal point is a comma

otherwise it would be nice to set that option in your PROFILE. Like in excel, no?
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
I really can't see the problem. By using space as a thousand seperator, it's impossible to misunderstand. For some countries 1,000 means one, and for some it means one thousand. Same goes for 1.000. Bit by using a space, 1 000, it's impossible to mistake it for one. Just keep it simple.
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
Quote: "ngdawa"​I really can't see the problem. By using space as a thousand seperator, it's impossible to misunderstand. For some countries 1,000 means one, and for some it means one thousand. Same goes for 1.000. Bit by using a space, 1 000, it's impossible to mistake it for one. Just keep it simple.
​This is why spaces as the thousand marker has long been the standard in the scientific literature. It's definitely the best option.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Biggest issue I see is when adding a new coin.
I add a lot of coins on numista and before I could add a mintage of
42,760,274

now to I have to re-check a lot because On new coin additions I have to add it as a number written together
42760274 just as an example and then its easier for mistakes to happen.

the other reason is just for the simple fact that people are used to mostly one of the two other ways and have done and written so for their whole lifes.
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
Quote: "apuking"​Biggest issue I see is when adding a new coin.
​I add a lot of coins on numista and before I could add a mintage of
​42,760,274

​now to I have to re-check a lot because On new coin additions I have to add it as a number written together
​42760274 just as an example and then its easier for mistakes to happen.

​the other reason is just for the simple fact that people are used to mostly one of the two other ways and have done and written so for their whole lifes.

​Now that's a good point that I hadn't considered. It should be possible to enter numbers for mintages using any option, since there won't be any fractions to worry about.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
It should be a profile option, not difficult to code it in...
Not everyone is a scientist, Im in sales and since years work daily on excel Files with numbers listed as ex. 12,135.55
it is really confusing fir some of us if just here it appears different.

new coin additions yes that should be changed that people can add it in different ways.
If you like coins, medals and tokens with ship motives follow my new instagram account with regular updates @numisnautiker
From time to time I sell some coins on Ebay make sure to follow me @apuking on Ebay.
Quote: "apuking"​Not everyone is a scientist, Im in sales and since years work daily on excel Files with numbers listed as ex. 12,135.55
​it is really confusing fir some of us if just here it appears different.

​new coin additions yes that should be changed that people can add it in different ways.
​I'm not suggesting everyone is, just pointing out how the use of spaces has been adopted to avoid confusion. If we can set the appearance of numbers in settings, that would clearly be best. Excel is very flexible in this regard and Numista would benifit from matching this flexibility.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
Quote: "ceh2019"It should be possible to enter numbers for mintages using any option, since there won't be any fractions to worry about.
​Or, the commas will just be removed when submitted. Then you can write the mintage in any way you want, and the site will then change to its standardised format.
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
These should be profile settings, just like in the Window Region control panel:
- decimal symbol
- digit grouping symbol
HoH
Quote: "ceh2019"
Quote: "ngdawa"​I really can't see the problem. By using space as a thousand seperator, it's impossible to misunderstand. For some countries 1,000 means one, and for some it means one thousand. Same goes for 1.000. Bit by using a space, 1 000, it's impossible to mistake it for one. Just keep it simple.
​​This is why spaces as the thousand marker has long been the standard in the scientific literature. It's definitely the best option.
​For most collectors here, I can share an opinion -that for us who use a translator it should be internationally understandable.
that's how I see it in translation I :

3x the same number : 1 000 - 1 000 - 1 000
That a Google translator would be the one who didn't care? He's for me. order after modification - please leave googl translator translated for us clearly( numista is also for aliens)
Let the international meaning of the word be fulfilled.
Thank you all and hello no stress.
Ivan
Quote: "apuking​"​I would very much appreciate if that could be set in Account options as to which standard you would like to have it set.



​I have said it before, but I will say it again: I also think it would be a very good idea to make this an option in the account settings.

Because the space versus comma (versus apostrophe) is subjective, I think there should be absolutely no problem with making this something that can be personalized in the account settings--this even seems like a solution that could make everyone happy (and those kinds of solutions are not that common). And at the very least, it would make these types of conversations come to an end. (8

I also think this would also help in regards to decimal numbers though--for example, in the reference section, there are some references that use decimals, and yet, on the French side, those decimals are not converted to commas (which I always found strange). And when it comes to decimal numbers, we cannot simply change everything to a space to solve that issue.
So, as I said many posts ago, introduce the option in the profile.
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com


I'm sorry if you don't like the French method of using commas, but it's been around for centuries because it works!

Please plan to take away commas . . . in our very appreciated French Website.
BOINC
Quote: "CREPOSUC"


​I'm sorry if you don't like the French method of using commas, but it's been around for centuries because it works!

​Please plan to take away commas . . . in our very appreciated French Website.

​I always thought, that the French used the "comma" as their decimal point? 1,27 Euro and not 1.27 Euro. Obviously I'm mistaken.
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
Hello,
You can now set your preferred decimal separator and thousands separator in your account settings.
THANK YOU!
Quote: "peterjhalford"​THANK YOU!
​ Agreed. :)
Merci beaucoup.
Globetrotter
Coin varieties in French:
https://monnaiesetvarietes.numista.com
So can we finally close this now?

There are many many other urgent things to fix than adding a setting for commas or dots ... Stop wasting everyone's time on minor things!
Coin referee for: AZE, FRO, GRL, US-HI, KOR, KGZ, MLI, MHL, MMR, PRK, UZB, SML, TAT, TWN, TJK
Banknote referee for: AGO, AZE, BLR, ECS, GEO, HTI, KAZ, KGZ, KOR, MNG, MRT, PMR, PRK, ROK, SWE, TJK, TKM, TUR, UZB, WSM, ZWE
Quote: "ngdawa"​So can we finally close this now?

​There are many many other urgent things to fix than adding a setting for commas or dots ... Stop wasting everyone's time on minor things!
​Such as...

(set to "," dividers here)

Not all fields seem to be affected by the settings. I suppose free text (titles, value, comments) won't be, and we should stick to spaces as dividers?

Weight and other numeric fields should be possible to format though?
Yes, using that above coin as an example >
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces174529.html
having changed the Settings, the thousands are now mostly as I chose,
but NOT the title -
and though the decimals I chose as dot,
they wrongly show as comma in at least two areas >
Quote: "ZacUK"​ Yes, using that above coin as an example >
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces174529.html
​having changed the Settings, the thousands are now mostly as I chose,
​but NOT the title -
​and though the decimals I chose as dot,
​they wrongly show as comma in at least two areas >


​Those two are not decimals. The weight is 1 thousand g and the value is 1 thousand 466 GPB.
It looks like the numerical fields have been fixed!

For the free text fields (value in words, title, comments) I suppose we should still use the default style:
https://en.numista.com/numisdoc/articles/catalogue_guidelines.php#numbers
I not understand
BOINC
here i can



and here too
BOINC
Quote: "ZacUK"​ Yes, using that above coin as an example >
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces174529.html
​having changed the Settings, the thousands are now mostly as I chose,
​but NOT the title -
​and though the decimals I chose as dot,
​they wrongly show as comma in at least two areas >
​The value in GBP and the weight are correct. You chose a comma as thousands separator. Those fields should be read as "1 thousand 4 hundred pounds" and "1 thousand grams".

The text fields (for example the title and the first line of the face value) are not impacted by this change. This should still be entered according to the guidelines: https://en.numista.com/numisdoc/articles/catalogue_guidelines.php#numbers
  • Space as thousands separator
  • Dot as decimal separator

I'll try to put in place automatic corrections to set the correct separators for the title and the face value, and also have them adapted to user preference.
Quote: "apuking"​According to this Wikipedia Page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dezimaltrennzeichen

​Decimals seperations with a dot are used in.

​Australia, Botswana, China, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Ghana, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Hongkong, India, Ireland, Israel, Japan, Korea (North and South), Malaysia, Malta, Mexiko, Namibia, Nepal, Nicaragua, Nigeria, New Zealand, Pakistan, Panama, Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, United Kingdom, USA, Canada (English speaking part), parts of Switzerland.

​Decimals seperation with a comma used by:

​Albania, Andorra, Argentinia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Bulgaria, Chile, Denmark, Germany, Ecuador, Estonia, Färöer, Finnland, France, Georgia, Greece, Greenland, Indonesia, Iceland, Italy, Colombia, Kosovo, Croatia, Cuba, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Moldawia, Netherlands, Northmacedonia, Norway, Austria, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Rromania, Russia, Sweden, Serbia, Simbabwe, Slowakia, Slowenia, Spain, South Africa, Czech Republic, Turkey, Ukraine, Hungary, Uruguay, Venezuela, Belarus, Canada (French part), parts of Switzerland

​The use of a cecimal by dot or comma is also a worldwide international standart set by ISO 80000-1


​Three ways to group the number ten thousand with digit group separators.
​1) Space, the internationally recommended thousands separator.
​2) Period (or full stop), the thousands separator used in many non-English speaking countries.
​3) Comma, the thousands separator used in most English-speaking countries


​I would very much appreciate if that could be set in Account options as to which standard you would like to have it set.

​Czech republic uses space, so it is not entirely accurate source.
Catalogue administrator
Status changed to Implemented (Xavier, 18-Oct-2023, 16:42)

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